[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. I'm your host Deb Maisner. I'm a registered nurse, health coach, and alcohol free badass. I have found that there's more than one way to address drinking. If you've ever asked yourself if drinking is taking more than it's giving, or if you found that you're drinking more than usual, you may have reached your own alcohol tipping point. The alcohol tipping point is a podcast for you to find tips, tools, and thoughts to change your drinking. Whether you're ready to quit forever or a week, this is the place for you. You are not stuck and you can change.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Let's get started.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you. I want to take a sec to invite you to the next alcoholiday. It's a monthly dry group where I help people practice not drinking. This is for you. If you feel like you're struggling, if you feel like you're stuck, if you feel like you're broken, you're never going to get it. I want to just support you and arm you with lots of different tools to battle cravings.
Work on your thinking about drinking. Be more kind and compassionate to yourself as you're doing this. You know, drinking is a habit and it's probably something you've done for years or decades. Even so, it takes a while to unwind it. And that's why I'm so passionate about focusing on practicing, not drinking, working on progress, not perfection. I love the saying focus on the direction, not perfection. And I think it's important just to have these types of groups, programs that just give you a safe place that has no shame, no judgment. A safe place where you can just learn new tools and just start unwinding the habit so that it gets easier and easier for you to drink less or not at all. I would love to have you join the next alcoholiday. It starts the first of every month. As a podcast listener, you always get 20% off by using the code love love and it is hosted on a private platform. It is a HIPAA protected platform. It's really important to me as a nurse just to have privacy and a safe place for you. And what you get is daily emails, lessons, accountability. You get lots and lots of tools to battle cravings. You get a really detailed guidebook journal to help you out during those 30 days, 31 days, whatever the length of the month is. And then you get downloadable audio meditations. Just something to go to when you're feeling a craving. We also do weekly group chats, weekly group support calls led by me and another sober coach twice a week. And then there's also a private chat where you can just share with others, support others, and it's just a great place to practice not drinking. The cost is $89 us dollars. That is so. It's less than $3 a day. Plus use that lov code to get your discount. And just a little background on me. I have been a registered nurse for 20 years. I'm a board certified health coach. I'm a smart recovery certified facilitator, an addiction certified mental health professional. I'm a mindfulness instructor. And then you all know I like to call myself an alcohol free badass. I've been alcohol free for four and a half years now, so I would love to see you in the next group. You can sign
[email protected] alcoholiday and join there. I also will link it in my show notes. Wherever you are with your drinking journey, just know that I am rooting for you, that you are not broken and you can change. Thanks so much.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in to this special episode of the alcohol Tipping Point podcast. I wanted to share this conversation that I had with my friend Heather Lowe. She is the founder of Ditch the drink and she has her own new podcast. She's on season one right now. It's called peripeteia. Check it out. Yes, I had to look up peripeteia. I was like, I don't even know what that word means, but it's similar to a tipping point. It's a reversal of circumstances. It's a turning point. And she just started it. And I was honored just to help her with it and be on one of her first episodes. And that's what this is a recording of. This is a recording of our episode about friendship. And I think it's just a great example of something that is so important to all of us and something that is so impacted by our drinking. So much of our drinking started with our friends. And then when we decide, like, okay, I think I'm done with drinking, or I need to take a break or I'm done, done, then it really changes our friendships. And one thing I've noticed also throughout the years of doing this is just how much people need connection, how much they need friends. So I think that this conversation will give you just a behind the scenes of Heather, my friendship. I've gotten to know her really well in the last year. We finally got to meet in person in real life in Seattle in September. It's just been great having her as a friend. But I also hope that it will give you some ideas of what you want your friendships to look like and just some ideas as you're reflecting about your past friendships, because they can change. And people do come into your life for a season and a reason, and we talk about all of that. So I hope that you enjoy this conversation. Do go check out Heather's podcast, peripeteia, and check Heather out at ditch the drink. She is on instagram, and she has her website, ditchthedrink.com. and she's just my people. She's my girl. So I hope you enjoy this. Thanks for listening.
[00:06:33] Speaker C: Bye, babes. Listen up. You landed here at the Peripatia podcast, and I'm so glad to have you enjoy these real girl talk conversations about the things that matter, from the ordinary to the extraordinary and every plot twist in between. I welcome you. Life has a way of throwing its curve falls, and these are the stories of female resilience while navigating change with newfound purpose. This is pera pitia. I'm so glad you're here. Let's embark on this journey together. Here we go.
How are you coming in today?
[00:07:12] Speaker B: I'm feeling good. I was just thinking to myself, like, I am so glad I don't have a migraine.
[00:07:19] Speaker C: Oh, I know.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Those were days of. So I feel like, okay, I'm back. I'm productive. I have a productive day today, so I'm coming. Good. How about you?
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Good. I'm excited because, well, I'm overwhelmed. Excited because I. I'm leaving after work tonight for an overnight and a day in Michigan with some friends.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Who are these friends, then?
[00:07:46] Speaker C: These friends? So it's kind of funny because I call them my sober friends. And so my other friends go, well, what do you call us? Okay. And speaking of friends, he's thinking of friendship or Tasnik here. And I like my drunk friends. These are my sober friends.
You know, so kind of funny. But these are girls that I met, which, gosh, I cannot wait to get into our conversation by going on a sober retreat.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:08:12] Speaker C: And now they've become some of the best friends I could ever have, so it's pretty cool.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:08:19] Speaker C: I wanted to start with our friendship. I wanted to start, like, backwards kind of about how we became friends, and then we can go from there and talking about friendship and friendship through the ages and gaining friends and losing friends. The whole tricky situation when it comes to women and friendship. First of all, Deb. So I started following you on Instagram. The alcohol tipping point. Somehow we started following each other, and I feel like anybody who's a friend of mine, I have a little bit of a crush on. There's something that I love or respect or admire about them, and I felt that with you. One, because I felt like you were really smart and you were a nurse, and I respected that. All my college roommates were nurses, and I was social work major, not smart enough to be a nurse. I loved nurses, but also was a healthcare recruiter and always in healthcare, working hospitals. Huge fan of nurses. And then he had a sense of humor, and so that matters so much to me. So I loved your sense of humor. I could see that we just clicked. And so we started maybe commenting on each other, maybe started, you know, like, sliding into DM's, you know, taking it, like, getting a little bit from a light to a comment to a message or whatever to maybe like, a zoom call or getting to know each other more one on one. But you said something to me one time. You said, I just really like you. And that was music to my ears. It was like, of course, that's exactly what anybody wants to know. And I thought, that's the nice thing anyone's ever said to me. I'm gonna lay my arms with this person, bring her closer, and we gotta be friends. So I really felt like it was you that did that, and I'm forever grateful. But why don't you share who you really are and your recollection of our meeting?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Who I really am. I'm really the person behind alcohol tipping point.
[00:10:11] Speaker C: I'm really a nurse, and I'm really not that funny.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Right?
Yeah. So I'm just. I think I'm just, like, a really basic person who lives in Boise, Idaho, like your typical suburban mom nurse. Why all of that good stuff? I just. I'm pretty down to earth and ordinary, and so I think it's funny. Like, I looked at you and your account and just like, oh, wow, she's so successful.
She's funny. She's someone I would want to be friends with, is how I felt. Like no matter what, even, like, in my drinking days, I'm like, I would be friends with Heather. And then now that we're both sober and have all this in common of having a business, having our own online thing, because that's a whole unique set of circumstances. But you also have, like, teenage daughters. You've been married forever. You've been in healthcare in your own way. So I just was like, this girl's my girl.
[00:11:16] Speaker C: Yeah. We have a lot in common, and we have a lot of differences. It's sort of perfect. We have, like. I mean, I think in regards to friendship, there are things that can immediately bond people, like attract or repel. Right. So some things that are immediately bond. Well, one for us, the sober coaching world, not everybody in our real life understands that or knows the players or knows the game or knows the landscape and what that looks like, and we do. So we can support each other as women in business and as sober coaches. And that's a very unique thing that connects us. And then mom of two girls, I mean, I love. We get it right? We totally. And then sobriety.
Sobriety in itself is a huge connector, and it's an unspoken bond between you and anyone, if they look like you or not. It's just that automatic, like, respect and admiration for somebody who's overcome something.
You know what that is because so have you. Right. So there's a real glue there that's stronger than drinking, than people that drink. I mean, I used to look for the drinkers. Right. That's why you were attracted to me, because you knew we would have been the drinkers together. For sure.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. When we were talking about doing this podcast, I was thinking about, like, why don't we look for in a friend? And what did I used to look for? And on my list of, like, oh, I want them to be funny. But, like, number one or two on my list before was, do they drink? Like, that was my. One of my top requirements for a friend. And, man, just looking back now, I'm like, wow, I really missed out on some amazing people, some amazing friendships. And so to see it change and evolve, I mean, our friendships change so much throughout our lives, but now this additional change of being sober and navigating friendships, that's different as well.
It's all been different throughout my life. Friendships have.
[00:13:21] Speaker C: Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. First of all, I wouldn't know how to be friends with somebody who didn't drink. As a drinker, that would make me really uncomfortable. I would be very weirded out, definitely, like, had no understanding for why wouldn't you drink? And how would you have fuck?
I mean, no, that's a no for me, as a drinker and as a sober person, of course, that has completely changed. We're meant to change, and our friendships are meant to change, and our values change. Like, that's evolution. That's growth. It's a really positive thing. But I want to mention, in the friendship world, it's hard because we have this idea of BFF best friend forever that we're supposed to have somebody who's in our day one, our og, our person, our lobster, right? There's all these. Our mate for life, our girlfriend, mate for life. That we're supposed. Like, this idea, this story, maybe it's in my mind, but I think it's out there, or even a pack of people, even a squad of people, right, that are tribe that are there for the long haul.
And I know I have felt rejected and disappointed when that hasn't happened for me because for a long time, I did have that. And actually, I was a gripper to friendships. Like, my first friend was a year older than me, and we played all day, every day. And I was four years old, and she was five years old. You know what that bitch did? She went to kindergarten.
How dare her. Now, what was I supposed to do all day? She was a kindergarten. I was not. And it broke my heart because now our friendship changed. She wasn't there to play with all day. Then she made new kindergarten friends, right? And immediately my heart was broke. And I kind of have kept that my whole life. Like, I'm a gripper, you know? And so it's been hard to have people in and out or leaving me in this idea that they're supposed to be forever. How does that sit with you?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Wow. I'm just. I can't believe you remembered that from being four. That's pretty amazing. That's, like, a core memory for you.
I think that I've come to terms with it, the changing friendships. I think I've always kind of been a bit of a chameleon, too. I was thinking about, like, I kind of do well on the fringe of groups, and so that has helped me kind of, like, evolve my friendships a bit from who I hung out with in elementary school, like you were talking about. We also moved from Lewiston, Idaho, to Moscow, Idaho, when I was in third grade. So that was my first kind of, like, severing of friendships. And I think that kind of helped in a ways because it was like, oh, now it's time to make new friends. What does this look like? And I felt like each kind of transition from elementary to junior high, it was like, oh, now the friends are changing again. And then high school. Oh, they're changing again. And then college and then mom friends and work friends.
I think that I kind of compartmentalize them a little bit more, that it sounds like you're a gripper and you want them for life. And I'm kind of like, I'm okay with the different compartments of friends. Does that make sense?
[00:16:52] Speaker C: It makes so much sense. And I think it's really healthy. I think everybody listening to this should take note, including me, because there is a need for different kinds of friends. Not everybody is the ride or die, right? And not everybody is for the whole lifetime. There's friends that are there for a reason or a season, and that's okay. And it's important to have all those different compartments of thread. And for me, I just think my claws in people, and I'm not a chameleon. That's where we're different. I'm the head of the panic. I'm the bossiest boss. I mean, when I look at the peanuts characters, I'm Lucy. I mean, who are you? You're probably Charlie Brown, right? Maybe peppermint pimpy. I think I'm a snoopy.
Yeah, you're a snoopy. When I look at the mug bits, I miss Piggy. You know, you're curly.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: I love this.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Winnie the pooh. You might be Piglet. Right? Okay. I'm doing.
We need all kinds of people and all kinds of friendships, but being that kind of. I'm in Aries. First day of the first sigh, just like, yeah. Sync my claws into people and expect them to, like, be there forever. And it has definitely broken my heart when they've left, for whatever reason. Like some. Obviously, I thought my high school friends, my high school friends were also my elementary school friends, so I thought they were going to be there forever and going to college. I made new friends, and some of my high school friends were actually hurt by them. But our friendship had to change because we didn't go to the same college. Of course, I was going to, you know, fill with new friends, but. And then. Yeah, to early adulthood, motherhood and work. But it has been. I put everybody in the same category. So I think it's really healthy to recognize different kinds of friends, different types of relationships, and they can help you in different ways.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: Well, that's interesting that. Yeah, I definitely see you as more of a leader and leader of the pack. I'm more of a joiner. So that is interesting, like, how you viewed your friendships versus how I have now. That's not to say I have had some friendships fade out that, like, really broke my heart.
But I think that I've dealt with that now, later. And it didn't have anything to do with sobriety or anything like that. It was just life changes. They got busy. I got busy. I still kind of miss them. There's still people I could reach out to, though, and it would be fine. There wasn't, like, a breakup, a fade out.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: Just a fade out.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: It was a fade out. Yeah.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: I've had both. I've had. I've had cut off. You know, I've had, like, a situation or an argument or something that was just cut off both ways, me and others. And I've had the slow fade out, too, which is just. It slowly starts to end until there's nothing.
So if you think about. I know there's a saying that says, like, you are, like, the five people you spend the most time with or something like that. If you think about those friends, I'd love to know a little bit about who they are and what that means to you and how that has changed over the years.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I would put you as one of those five people now, because one really cool thing that Heather and I have done, like, we have never met in real life.
[00:20:26] Speaker C: And now a word from our sponsor. I'm just. Wait. But we're gonna meet live at zero proof experiences. So we're in the city in Seattle this September. So, everybody, if you want to be our friend and meet us live, join us there. But, yeah, totally.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: And like you said, like, I have made some of the most meaningful friendships at sober retreats. Within my sober groups, I've seen other. The other women, like, making friends and connections with each other, which I think is so amazing. But to your question, like, about the five reflections of yourself. So I say I put you in that category because we are on Marco polo all the time, just chatting back and forth. And I think I also want to point it out for people who are listening. Cause I think a lot of people, their definition of friendship is, like, okay, we're in person. We hang out, we go get coffee. We, you know. But you can make a really meaningful connection online.
You know, that came out of COVID right, where we all really got more connected with technology. We also got very disconnected. I do, like, in real life things, but it is possible to also have a real connection online.
So, yeah, I would say I would put you in that category. I have some, like, I guess, ride or die people that I know I could always reach out to at any point. I have a friend I went to nursing school with. I could reach out to her anytime.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Is she local?
[00:22:10] Speaker B: She actually lives in my neighborhood.
[00:22:13] Speaker C: Okay. So do you see each other regularly?
[00:22:15] Speaker B: No. No, not as much.
[00:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. How often do you get together? And or connect. Is it like quarterly or twice a year and you just know you're there.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Twice a year, I would say.
I mean, when she first moved into the neighborhood, it was like, oh, my God, my bestie's here. Yay. But I was also drinking really heavily. But now, no, not as much, to be honest. Like, I'm not that social. I always look at what you're doing in your life, Heather, and, like, it seems like you're always going out. You have all these events, you have this friends group. You're going to this tomorrow, right?
[00:22:56] Speaker C: Or today.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah, today. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're so social. And that's why I sent you that meme that Mel Robbins had posted about. Like, all the people I would want to hang out with are sitting home on their couches, too, or what was it?
[00:23:14] Speaker C: I get that. So what I want to say, like, there are some people, and I have these people, too, that know me very, very well, have known me for decades, and I could count on them. Like you said, mel Robbins also did a friendship podcast, and she called it your 04:00 a.m. call friends. But she said people that you could call at 04:00 a.m. just to talk if you were feeling lonely. And I'm sorry, do not call me to talk it unless you are calling me. Like, you can call me for an emergency and I will be there. But if you are feeling lonely, let's talk about it at 09:00 a.m. the next day.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: It sounds scary.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: I would never call anybody to say, like, can we talk? I'm feeling lonely right now. At 04:00 a.m. i would be like, are you awake? Time for coffee. Like, you know, maybe after six or seven or eight.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: So funny. My sister would, though. She definitely would.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: She would call you to say, I'm lonely. And you would answer, well, she gets.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: Up super early and she doesn't care that I don't like. My sister now is one of my best friends.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: That's what I was going to say. My best friends are, my mom is my best friend, my daughters are my best friend, and my mom's best friends are her five sisters. So this is the other illusion we have out there is that people have all these friends, and you might be seeing what you don't have. And my mom, let's say, doesn't have friends, but she has five sisters that she's very, very close to. So whenever she says something about prince, I'm like, mom, you've got the pot of gold. Like, you have all the social life you need in those five women right there, built in. Right. And for me, I question sometimes I have insecurities about friendships or this or that, but, like, I was blessed with a mom that I'm so, so close to. She's my first call. She's my first call person. It's my mom. You know, she would be awake at 04:00 a.m. so that would be fine. You know what I mean? So, yeah, there is that. That your family can be your friends, and it's cool when that happens. I actually, my sister and my brother in law are some of our best friends. And when you said that meme of, like, everybody I want to meet is also staying at home, avoiding everything. I love to go out. I'm very extroverted, obviously, all of that. But also through sobriety, my social circles changed, and I didn't want to do the thing. I used to drink to tolerate situations, social situations I didn't want to be in. And so my husband doesn't drink around me, so we don't drink. So going out for a drinking activity is not going to give us the same pleasure, joy, excitement that it used to. And actually, I don't even think it used to. I think I always felt uncomfortable in those situations, and that's why I drink. But at least numb took the edge off my anxiety. And now the good news is, I just don't go. I just don't have to go. In fact, there was a big party in our town where I think everybody was invited. Everybody I know, everybody I'm friends with was invited and went, and we weren't invited. And I was so grateful, so happy that I did.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Well, that's good. You had more Joe mo.
[00:26:30] Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, thank God. Cause how would I go? Or how would I turn it down? I feel bad, you know, like. But also, I really, really, really don't want to be there. So just. What a blessing to not be invited is how I felt. But my husband and I are kids now. Busy. They've got their own license. They're out and about on the weekends, and we're sitting at the excuse. Used to be we got to drive the kids around, or we've got kids activities. Well, now we don't. And also, I think, with raising kids, our social life was put on hold. So we've grown apart from people just because there hasn't been time with running the kids around. Well, now the kids are running themselves around, and my husband and I are bored sitting at home. Right. And we're like, we actually don't really have any friends. We really don't have that. Our one favorite couple is busy this weekend, so what are we going to do?
So we're in that phase of moving towards empty nesting, kind of.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Would you say, like, your husband's one of your best friends?
[00:27:30] Speaker C: Definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. But he's not girlfriend, you know?
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Yes. It's so, so different, isn't it?
Yeah.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: I feel like things and we have great conversation and stuff, but also he's just not.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, my husband just doesn't get me sometimes. He doesn't get it. And I think finding people that get it, that get you, especially, like in the sober world, like, it is so comforting because I think we just want to be seen and authentic and accepted for who we are. And I was gonna ask you, like, what, what do you look for in a friend?
[00:28:17] Speaker C: Well, like a good time. Somebody who's funny. Sense of humor. Like I said, like, I don't know, I was classed in high school. Like, it is that fast. Sobriety was scary to me because I have to be.
I mean, life isn't just a party or anything, but like, I love funny people, people that can make me laughter. I have a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm. I love to laugh. Like, I love people that are adventurous and say yes to things. Just people that are like Debbie downers or complaining all the time or looking at the worst of things or very serious people.
It's hard for me because I really like to laugh. Fun. And the more ridiculous, the happier, the harder I laugh and the more ridiculous it is. And when somebody can make me laugh, when you say, you gotta get it, a sense of humor, you gotta get it. When you're sending the memes that you know the other person's gonna get to me, that is super, super important. But also our friendship, which you were talking about, which a lot, was created now on Merco Polo, which we check in all day long sometimes, and sometimes a day or two goes by, but we very much become like daily check in friends. And it moved to a different level, though. Recently I felt we're getting to know each other, like, you know, seeing each other in different environments, sharing a little more about our day, sharing a little bit about our history.
But very recently, when I was visiting my mom, I had a, like an emotional situation and you've helped you help me walk through there. And I felt like that took our friendship to a different level because I was very vulnerable with you and sharing something that I hadn't shared before and sharing it while it was in process versus all wrapped up with a bow. Right. And it was. There was no mask of pretending to be something or pretending to have it all together. It was like, this is something I'm actually struggling with right now. And you helped me walk through that. And that's how you get intimate with somebody. That's how you form a deeper bond, I think, is by letting them help you and sharing not your bright, sunny side, but your reality, your realness, and having accepting help, you know, accepting help from somebody. So I felt like that took us to it to a deeper level.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel safe with you, too. And maybe is the Marco Polo. Maybe part of it is we don't live in the same city. We don't see each other day to day. Like, there's kind of some safety there, too. Like, oh, I could tell her anything, and then I can hop away.
[00:31:05] Speaker C: Right. I'm not gonna see you at the barbecue on Friday and hold you to it. Right, exactly.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's so interesting. It's just a different dynamic to friendships, but I think that's important, too, like, just to have flexible definitions of people in your life that support you, what a friend looks like, what you look for in a friend, how you want to show up as a friend, all of that.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: How do you show up as a friend? Do you have a friendship? Love language?
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Ooh, that's a good question. Probably quality time. And I say that even though I don't always get to spend time with people, but I want to, like, quality.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: Time from the comfort of my couch.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: But sometimes even just conversations are quality time, like, how you're spending your time together. So quality versus quantity, I guess, would be a better way of putting it. I don't like small talk. I think that's also why going to parties now is awkward. Like, who are your kids?
You know what I mean? I think that sobriety was a fast track to bigger conversations. Bigger, deeper conversations.
And that is important to me, I think. Just. Yeah. So I guess how I show up as a friend, I hope, is that I will accept you however you show up. I'm non judgmental. I'm here to listen, to help if needed. So I think. I hope that that's how I show up as a friend.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: Oh, I love you for that. Because it doesn't, like I've said, this happens in new friendship too. Like, I'll say something because I'm impulsive. And I had a friend once told me I'm a blurter. So I'm somebody who thinks flat out of my mouth before I think about them, right? And so I say all sorts of things. Some might be true and some might change when the wind blows a different way. But then I felt like, oh, I shouldn't have said that, or you're going to think this about me, or you're going to think that about me, you know what I mean? Or I talk too much about this because then I felt vulnerable and exposed. If I've shared too much in a new friendship and that person's not ready for it, or that person doesn't know enough about me, they don't know enough positive things to then have me share this, let's say, negative thing. And then they're going to think, that's all I am. And then I'm going to make up stories in my mind. The story that we all have is, oh, my God, somebody's mad at me or somebody hates me. Right? That could be, like, the worst case scenario, which is, of course, often I look for evidence about why people don't like me.
I'm working on that, of course. But I think it's a natural insecurity that we have, or I shared too much being a Miss piggy. I mean, it's a too much kind of person. So, of course, orsite am always sharing too much. And you are somebody who says, that's okay. And I know you're not gonna hold me to it anyways because you're snoopy. I'm gonna come back the next day and have a different thought about that, and it's all gonna be fine. And I think you look for the good and you see the good, and you remind me and probably your other friends of the good. Very non judgmental. And I'm certain you're like that as a coach, too.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Well, yeah. And I don't think there's a line. You could cry. You could never share too much with me. You could even tell me about your daily bowel movements. I'm like, I'm here for it. Tell me, because that's the nurse. That's the nurse in me. Will we start?
[00:34:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: There's never TMI.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. So isn't that lovely, too? When you know you're with somebody that you couldn't overshare or that would be there for all of it because they're interested in you. Because they're interested in you and excited about you and they want to know about your life.
That's always sweet.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: That's really sweet. One thing that's cool that I want to tell everyone is so I've had, like, 40 year friendships. I am very lucky that I was from a small town, and the people that I literally knew in preschool continue to be my friends are still my friends today. True story. I've got a handful of people that I'm very, very close to. My whole grade really were still pretty tight.
So that's why it was hard for me when I ditched the drink to find new sober people. I didn't think I needed new friends because I already had all these friends, right? And I didn't want to be a weird sober person myself, so why would I want to hang out with the weird, sober people, right? And so I was very resistive. I was very hesitant. But I have found these new people, and there is this new bond. It is really beautiful, and there is fade away, and there is cut off from other relationships. And I think, like a garden, we have to prune sometimes we have to cut off, and we got to prune our. We got to cut back. You know, we got to cut back on some friendships and some relationships so we can make room for growth and for. For new. And I've become a more interesting person by being friends with new kinds of people. Like you, a gal from Idaho, right? Like, I didn't have that friend from Idaho before this. And in those new friendships, it's really fun to get to know people backwards. Like, my childhood people know my grandparents and where I grew up and that I won the spelling bee or I got to the top of the rope and jam or that I was very good at either the pom pom girl or I dated so and so or pretty girl like. But I never had to tell them anything because we grew up, and they always knew everything about me, including all my aunts and uncles. I was a fourth generation to graduate from my high school, so pretty big deal around there. Like. Like, some people just knew me, but in getting to know new people, we're getting. It's like, I don't know when their birthday is or what they like on their pizza or how they take their coffee or who their first kiss was or.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: I.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: Like, I'm learning these things backwards in my new friendships, and it's been really fun. It's been really fun to get to know backwards, and we're doing that with each other.
It just comes up like, oh, tell me about your mom or tell me about your dad's upbringing or whatever it is. So there is something cool to that.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah, what a good point. What a good way to look at it, too.
And how special that you've had those friendships for so long. I mean, clearly that means a lot to you. Like, loyalty is probably one of your top values, would you say?
[00:37:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why I just assume everybody would be there for my whole life. Once they're in, they're in, right?
[00:37:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:49] Speaker C: Because once my heart is open to somebody, it's like I carry them with me. I value that so much. But there is something beautiful about letting go. And also, I forced my friendship down people's throats. I mean, I've demanded us to stay close sometime to a fall where it's like, if you could just let it go, it'll drown. But it's like, well, it takes two to hold something up, so maybe just drop your end of the rope. Hey, it's okay.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Yeah. But I can see how it's heartbreaking. I mean, because our friendships are like another kind of love that we have. And. And especially if someone's pulling away before you are or if you have, like, an actual friend breakup, I mean, that can be so devastating. I remember my daughter in 10th grade, which was the start of her high school. Her best friend broke up with her. Her best friend was like, I think you're kind of holding me back. I want to meet other people. I mean, it was like a breakup, and it was one of the hardest things she ever went through, and it was so heartbreaking, and she really grieved the loss of that friend. And so I think it's okay to grieve the loss of your friends because I know you've had some relationships like that that have.
Maybe it wasn't an outright breakup, but you lost those friends, and that is definitely something to grieve about.
[00:39:26] Speaker C: Yeah, that's such a good point. Grief in friendships, because, one, we don't have language for it. When there's a divorce or a separation, we have language for it. But often.
Well, in my case, even my friends have been in my life longer than my spouse, and I've been married for, like, 23 years. Right. So these people that have been in your life and a girlfriend, especially, who you relied upon, like we already mentioned, for all these things that you don't go to your spouse for, right, for all to be a source of support and care and concern and affirmation in all these ways. There's not a word for the breakup like, there is divorce, and there's not a public acknowledgement of that sort of grief of loss. And there is, if the person dies or passes away.
Right. I've often lost a lot, I've lost a lot of friends due to like tragedy or illness or accident. But theres a word for that. But theres not a word for when theyre living. But the relationship is over. Yeah.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: And then you feel like there must be something wrong with you.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: Because theres not a lot of language out there about that and not a lot of people talk about it. But I think it does happen. I think a lot of women and men are hurting because of these lost relationships.
[00:40:50] Speaker C: I think so too. And a lot of it is, I would imagine, misunderstandings too. And I know I can't blame everybody in my life because the truth is as a, during hurt, like, I don't know what kind of friend I was. I was in my own bed struggling with my own things. I pride myself on being a good friend. Friendship is really important to me. I was also an only child. I was born an only child. So I think that's the other thing. Eventually my parents remarried and I have half siblings that are ten and twelve years younger than me and I have a stepsister. But for most of my life I was an only child. So I found sisters for myself. When I got in with somebody, I got in with them. And after the friend that left me to go to kindergarten, I made another friend. Now this one was a year younger than me. So for her I, I was going to be the one to go off. It was, I was brilliant. I was going to be the one to go off and do better things. But she was an only child and so it was perfect because I got to go on all her vacations. I got to be her plus one. We got to be each other's plus one for everything because the parents would want a playdate or a playmate and it always got to be me. And so I think that's why I've clung to people like family almost, is just an attempt to create my own. But you have siblings, you've got a brother and a sister, right?
[00:42:10] Speaker B: I do. I do. But it makes so much sense what you're saying. And my niece is an only child. She's now a high school teacher. But I could see her really hang on to friendships. Friendships are so important to her and she wanted to, like, I can see the loneliness that came to from being an only child and the wanting to be with peers, like minded people. And then it was a hard transition for her after college, which I think it is for a lot of people after because college is so social.
It's finally the end of all this social, young, peer to peer interaction. Now you're out in the real world and you're no longer with your friends.
You're working now, and that's a huge transition. Yeah. So I think it makes sense that you, being an only child, might be a little lonely. And then the loneliness thing, too, like that comes up again and again, especially as we get older.
People are lonely. Well, and they are looking for friendships and they are looking for meaningful connections. And a lot of people are drinking because they're lonely. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, like, well, red wine was my best friend or drinking's my friend. Yeah. So I think there's a huge connection there.
[00:43:39] Speaker C: Absolutely. You read my mind because as you were talking, I was thinking, like, loneliness is an epidemic. It really, really is. And I think even people come to me for coaching support because they simply want to witness to their life, so. Right.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: They want someone to say congratulations, and look what I did this week. And hear me. And here's my struggle. They're women like me, strong, independent women who think we don't need any help or, or anybody or we're taking care of everybody else. They're caregivers, they're moms, kids with special needs, their sandwich generation taking care of their parents.
They've got big jobs. They're trying to hold it all together, but they need someone to see them. And it's worth it, you know, just to get a coach, to have a relationship of somebody who sees them, because we all want to be seen. But the only child is, the thing is, like, a sense of belonging to, like, a role that you play and then built in if you have a family. Like, my mom is number two of five girls, so she's the second girl. And there's all these things, and I've had to create that for myself. Like, I have a weekly card club now. We play Euchre. So there's four women. And it's funny, we all have a role of who we are, right? Like, we've got the funny hippie gal and we've got the practical gal, you know, we've got the woo woo kind of gal, and we've got me, the boss who is competitive and wants to win, and it just. It plays out, and it's. You can have a one on one friendship that matters. And I think your 04:00 a.m. protocol, you're your nursing school friend. She's that person, and that's an individual friendship. And then we have, like, a group of people. And that is like my cover clipper for you. It could be who you are in your family, what role you get to play. And that gives a sense of belonging, I think, to something even bigger, that you belong in this group and you have a spot and a role to play. I think that's really helpful and healing for people.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: Yes. I think such a good word, belonging and such a core feeling that we want. And I think it's partly why it's hard to change our drinking if we are belonging to a drinking group and now we're different, even if drinking's not your thing, if you have something else that you struggle with, and usually we hide it. We do want to present our best self. We don't tell our friends always what's really going on. You know, we purposefully put our best self out there because it is hard to share that we're struggling. Like you said, it's hard to ask for help. But, yeah, just going back to that belonging, being one of those core values that we all want throughout our lives.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Yeah. So it goes against the grain to quit drinking because alcohol is the automatic connector. Like, we're doing spots. We're sharing this bottle of wine around the table. We're all grabbing a cold brew and then going to sit on the deck or whatever it is we're doing.
We are a species that wants to belong in, needs to belong and have to have belonging for survival. And when that alcohol is the glue, and it is for all of us, we've chosen groups like that because we were drinkers ourselves. Right. And then we are purposely putting ourself on the outs. It's very counterintuitive. And it's like, now we don't do that belonging thing. We don't do that thing that connects. We're putting ourselves on the outside on purpose, intentionally. We're choosing there, and it goes against everything that comes natural for us. So that's why it's really, really hard to drinking and then to go back in those social situations and expect yourself to not have feelings about that. Right. To not feel so stressed out that you want to drink and take on those feelings of stress because you've just chosen to put yourself on the outs.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Which, going back to loneliness, you don't have to be alone to feel lonely. So a lot of people feel lonely in a group of drinkers. If you're trying not to drink, how do you feel? Was loneliness.
[00:47:54] Speaker C: Yeah. So, and drinking isolates us, too. It takes us further and further. So I think my loneliness started. I think I thought I was friends with people, but I was drinking, and in fact, people were noticing. I had a friend asked me once, like, well, are you happy? And I was so offended that she asked them, because even though I was drowning in my own drinking, I was miserable in my job, and I was full of grief and shame.
Very clearly not happy. I was like, how dare she? Like, she wishes she had everything I have. Like, how couldn't I be happy? I have this perfect house, this perfect spouse, these perfect kids, this very impressive job title. Like, I am doing great. How dare you ask me that, right? And now I'm like, I was in denial. I was absolutely miserable. But it was my protection to say everything was okay. I was okay. I had to keep marching to I was okay, because if I didn't, I would crumble. And what was the options for me, right? Like, I didn't have time for a breakdown. I couldn't see how my life would continue if I surrendered in any way. I was just trying to keep up. And I was so full of shame that I just had to keep saying, everything's okay, even though it wasn't. So I wasn't being honest in my friendships, and I was walking around with a secret. The secret was a lot of secrets, probably, but one was, I'm terrified that I dreamed too much, and I don't know how to quit. I don't really want this to be a real problem for me. How do I hide it?
[00:49:26] Speaker B: And then how do you overcome that? Like, how do you tell your friends? How do you tell someone else?
[00:49:35] Speaker C: You know what? When I first did, well, first I just fell to my knees to my husband and said, I need help, and this is it, you know, and that. And that was the first time I did that after I had gone three years without drinking. My last day one, I just really surrendered and asked for help, which I had never done. So that was different with my friends. It was very interesting.
I was spending the most time with people that I drink the most with because I was at the end of my drinking, right? There was two friends in particular I sat down with on that day one and cried and said, I'm so sorry. Well, I have to quit drinking. I'm so sorry. I can't do this anymore. It was, like, the saddest thing, that I wouldn't be a drinking buddy with them, that I wouldn't be able to drink, and that this was going to change our friendship and everything. It was very morbid. It was very sad. I was just crying, and I was so sorry that I couldn't be a better drinker or hang in there with them in the drinking. Right. And looking back, that's so funny because it was the healthiest, best possible decision. It was the only, most beautiful option for me. And it is something to celebrate so big and hard. It's nothing to cry about, quitting drinking. I mean, definitely you cry because it's a change, but it is something to. It is good for you is the response to that. Like, that's amazing. Congratulations. You know? But one of them quit drinking with me for.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: So when you shared that, she was like, I want you.
[00:51:06] Speaker C: That, too. Yeah. She's like, I think I do that, too.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: Yep. And then the other one has been my number one biggest support. So I went to her house after a happy hour. I had a happy hour where I didn't drink. And then I went to her house where we were going to have our usual Thursday night drinking thing. And I said, drink whatever you want. I just got back to this happy hour. It was so hard. I didn't drink. I'm going to have a sparkling water. Do whatever you want. I don't want to make you feel weird, like, you know, we'll just hang out. And she's like, no, I have to do this real estate class later. We'll both have sparkling water. So we had these orange sparkling waters. She chopped up an orange garnish for it. We put it in a beautiful glass and we went outside and drank it together. And I was like, it's not so bad. She's like, it's not so bad at all. It's actually better for me. And then, I mean, she would slap a drink out of my hand to fight. Tried, you know, I mean, and she's a drinker, right? So they were very, very supportive, and it has changed throughout the years, but it started with me giving them a big apology that I was going to quit drinking.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Wow. Well, I'm so glad you got that response, because I think people are terrified to tell their friends. I would always tell my friends I'm taking a break. So they always knew that. So I didn't quite. It was easier for me to frame it, like, as a break, as a health thing. I'm drying out. I'm doing a dry month. So that was easier for me. It wasn't until I had actually gotten some traction and some days under me that I started talking more about how it was so hard for me and I would say all my friends, my true friends, were very supportive, and some of them were like, hey, I'm having a problem, too. Or they could commiserate. And so that was helpful for me. I have had some people that share, they haven't had great responses from friends that some of their friends don't understand. They're like, oh, you're fine.
You don't really have a problem. You're okay. And maybe those friends are in their own denial or whatnot, but they haven't had a great response.
Most people, though, I would say it's such a relief when you share your truth, when you share, like, I have a problem.
[00:53:29] Speaker C: Was it for you when you went back and said, okay, I've been taking these breaks, but actually I feel so much better without it. I'm not going to be drinking. It was hard for me. It was hard for me to let it go.
[00:53:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it was a relief because.
[00:53:45] Speaker C: It was like the secret was out.
[00:53:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You know that meme that says, like, the three hardest things to say are, I have a problem, I need help, and Worcestershire sauce.
But I. But those two things, I have a problem and I need help. Like, those are really fucking hard to say. Especially women where we're like, we can do it. We can do it all.
I don't need help. I'm fine. Like, you're the whole little meme of fine and the world's on fire, right? I don't know. Somehow we have lost that vulnerability of just being like, hey, I'm struggling. I'm a human. I'm struggling. I need help.
[00:54:28] Speaker C: I feel like that's a really, really beautiful message, Deb. Thank you for saying that. Words to sure sauce.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: And bonus phrases.
[00:54:37] Speaker C: You can spell it Worcestershire. No, because that's literally what I did with my husband. I said, I work a problem. I need help. And you know what? That's what I did with Hugh on our Merco polos when we had the opportunity together to bring our friendship to a deeper level, was saying, I have a problem and I could use some hill. So if anybody listening to this podcast wants to know how to make a friend or how to deepen a friendship or how to be authentic or real or find a safe place, person relationship for you, I think we can definitely use that meme. I think you say, is this somebody that I can say, I have a problem, I need help. And if you can't, like, why not? What needs to change? Or is that not a safe person? And when you're hunting for new friends, is this a person that you feel is as non judgmental as Deb is and that you could never be too much to. And you could say, I have a problem and I need help, and you're not friends. Maybe, like, attractive rappel. You're not really friends. Like, deep friends with somebody that you couldn't say that to. Right. Even if it's that minor problem at work or a mom problem with your mom group or whatever it is, acting like we have everything together all the time doesn't create friendships. It doesn't make connection. But saying you have a problem and I could use some help does.
[00:56:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to suffer in silence. Right.
[00:56:07] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's what somebody says, me too.
Right. I mean, somebody has an opportunity to say, me, too. And I think that's what really, really connects us is kind of our struggles, not our strengths.
[00:56:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, I guess I'm lucky that every time I have shared, it's just made relationships stronger, and it's made the shame go away. You know, the whole shame. Can't live in the dark. You shine a light on it and.
Yeah, I mean, we're just all humans. We're not perfect. Nobody is.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: Yeah. And pretending to be doesn't. Doesn't give us friendships. And I think even with you, we're like, oh, my God, she's so successful. She's doing all these things. When we got to know each other a little bit, and I shared some things, you're like, oh, okay. Like, even you struggle with this or that, or even you have questions about this or that. Like, it's not all what you think it is, right?
[00:57:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
[00:57:05] Speaker C: Yeah. So get deep with people, get to know people, and you can make an Internet friend. So I think saying, I like you. I mean, you reach out to somebody and you just say, I like you. That will be well received. I can't imagine a person in the world that would turn that down. They would say online, gosh. Get over here. Oh, thank you. Get over here. I'm going to latch around. I'm going to pause. And now you're in. I'm going to marco you. I'll share with the world. No shame. A 17 minutes mark over the other day.
[00:57:34] Speaker B: No ads, because I do those for you.
[00:57:37] Speaker C: We could have had a black. Yes. That could have been a podcast.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: Today we podcast.
[00:57:44] Speaker C: Thank God. Yeah. So we can share it with the world, but, yeah. Any final tips to making a friend or being a friend or navigating friendships?
[00:57:55] Speaker B: Well, I was just thinking about, like, that's that whole, how do we make friends when we're adults? Like, where do we find them? How do we, you know, and it's kind of the. But it's almost like you're dating honestly. And so it's finding, like, you want to find like minded people, or I have a friend, her husband said find heart minded people.
So it can be reaching out to people on Instagram. Like, it could be, if that's your GM, it could be looking on apps, looking for meetup groups, maybe even through your work, maybe inviting someone for coffee.
Maybe it's community, maybe it's church. You know, like, I mean, there. I know that there are other people out there that are lonely and they are looking for connection, too. What would you say? What advice do you have for finding and making new friends? Oh, the gym. I was going to say the gym, too. I've made some good friends at the Young Men's Christian association, also known as.
[00:59:02] Speaker C: The why, like yoga studios and stuff like that. Like, any groups, my gym has definitely has things like groupon or living social has activities. So, you know, for connection. But yeah, communities, any kind of community or support groups that you can research and find are definitely ways to get out there, but you're not going to make a friend without being vulnerable, and you have to put yourself out there, so you have to initiate, too. Like, people might not necessarily just come to you and say, I like you and I want to be your friend. You might have to reach out to them. And so you do have to have a little skin in the game yourself, and you do have to risk being rejected if that person doesn't want to go for a walk or doesn't want to have coffee. And it is like dating. Like, you keep taking it a step further and sharing more, and it's matched. It's mirrored by the other person, and then you see where this will go. But honestly, I went on a sober retreat, and that's how I made some really good sober friends. Spending time together. Those are great opportunities. I have a sober community. You have a sober community. I know. And people in there have become buddied up with each other. So if you have something in common, leg sobriety, finding a community of heart minded, like minded people like that can work. And I know people have this for cancer support groups or divorce support groups or anything that you have overcome. There are support groups or widow groups, right? Like things that are parents of kids with special needs, things like that that automatically connect you. Looking to find support in that way.
[01:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I want to share this poem with you. Not written by me. You don't want a poem written by me. I was trying to move it, but I can't. Okay. This is from Donna Ashworth, who, I love her poems and her work. This is just called friendships. Says, I don't think friendships are given enough credit. We sign no contract, we say no vows, and yet we are there for each other, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health. We laugh together in life giving amounts. We cry together without shame. We pull each other up out of the mud again and again and again.
I don't think friendships are given enough credit. Unwritten love stories. Each and every one.
[01:01:22] Speaker C: So true.
[01:01:23] Speaker B: So true. Love story.
[01:01:26] Speaker C: Our love stories. And we have a love story, too. Thank you.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: I know we have a little cute love story.
[01:01:32] Speaker C: We have. We have it all. Tell everybody where they can find you, follow you, so they can be your friend, too. Everyone's gonna want to be your friend. I'm going to get jealous because everybody's going to want to be your friend. And I want to be like I was here first.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: No, you just.
The more the merrier. Heather. Yeah. You can find me an alcohol tipping point. I'm on instagram. I have a podcast. I have a website, alcoholtippingpoint.com. and if you're ever in Boise, hit me up and let's go to coffee or go on a walk. Go to the greenbelt. I would love to. I would love to meet you. I love meeting people. I love hearing stories.
So, yeah, that's how they can find me.
[01:02:12] Speaker C: Awesome. Thank you, Deb. Thanks for tackling this topic of friendship and for being my new best friend.
And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Peripatia podcast, a talk show for women. Join us in the insider of community with a seven day free trial to continue the
[email protected]. and don't forget to download my free ebook, the twelve truths to change your life. Do it for the plaque. We'll see you in the next episode. Lots of love.
[01:02:48] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. Please share and review the show so you can help other people, too. I want you to know I'm always here for you. So please reach out and talk to me on Instagram at alcoholtippingpoint. And check out my website, alcoholtippingpoint.com, for.
[01:03:06] Speaker B: Free resources and help.
[01:03:08] Speaker A: No matter where you are on your drinking journey, I want to encourage you to just keep practicing. Keep going. I promise you are not alone and.
[01:03:16] Speaker B: You are worth it.
[01:03:18] Speaker A: Every day you practice not drinking is a day you can learn from. I hope you can use these tips we talked about for the rest of your week. And until then, talk to you next time.
