How Living by Your Values Can Change Your Drinking with Angie Chaplin

Episode 66 June 19, 2022 00:48:58
 How Living by Your Values Can Change Your Drinking with Angie Chaplin
Alcohol Tipping Point
How Living by Your Values Can Change Your Drinking with Angie Chaplin

Jun 19 2022 | 00:48:58

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Hosted By

Deb Masner

Show Notes

My guest is Angie Chaplin, Speaker, Author, Advocate for Alcohol-Free Living, Certified Facilitator SMART Recovery and VP of Franchising & Organizational Development at Unimpaired Dry Bar.  

We chat about: 

If you want to do your own free values assessment check out https://personalvalu.es/  

Find Angie:  

[email protected] 

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View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

pod 66 angie chaplin Deb: . Welcome back to the alcohol tipping point podcast. I am your host Deb Masner I'm a registered nurse health coach and alcohol free. And today I have Angie chaplain. She is a speaker author advocate for alcohol free living. She is a certified facilitator for smart recovery, and she recently started a cool, really cool new job as the VP of franchising and organizational development for unimpaired dry bar. So I'm excited to hear about that. Well, Angie. Angie: Thank you. It's such a pleasure to talk with you. We've crossed paths many times just in our circles and our networks, but this is the first time we've actually had the chance to speak. So I'm grateful for the opportunity. Yeah. I'm Deb: grateful to have you, so kind of fill in the gaps of your introduction a little bit about like who you are, where you're at right now and what you're doing Angie: right now. I am in Iowa city, Iowa. I, and I have been. In Iowa, my entire life. So born and raised, I have lived in a variety of different parts of the state, but have always been an Iowan. I am currently working in the very titles that you shared, primarily as vice-president for franchising and org development with unimpaired to drive our, and that is a incredibly. Wondrous opportunity. And I say that simply because being, you know, almost 900 days sober and having spent a decade struggling in very dark places. With severe alcohol use disorder or alcohol addiction, depending what feels comfortable for people to refer to it, to now be on this side of alcohol and very transparent, very authentic, and truly living into my values in a way that I never saw coming. It's it's remarked. Well, you have Deb: a remarkable story. Can you share that with our listeners? Angie: Absolutely. My, my journey started really in a different spot than a lot of people who have a long-term struggle with the role that alcohol plays in their life. I really didn't start drinking problematically until my. So I wasn't, I didn't drink at all. In high school. I was not a heavy drinker in college. Got married, had two kids started having some challenges in my marital relationships and just started drinking. More heavily, you know, I think up until that point, it was what most people would consider socially acceptable and wasn't having an impact negatively on my life to the degree that it eventually would. But then just as things started to become more challenging, I use drinking as a coping mechanism. And as we know the effects of alcohol quickly go beyond taking the edge off to all of a sudden being all consuming in everything we're thinking about. Everything were strategizing around, affecting our relationships with the people we love, but more importantly, affecting our relationships with ourselves. I struggled with that lack of identity for about 10 years and increasing my alcohol use, really, I think in an attempt to find myself. But not wanting to do all the internal work and diligence that it would take to truly find myself. So as my health continued to deteriorate I eventually got divorced and that just caused a whole nother series of struggles and challenges. And my health would reach the point that I would require hospitalization. And it wasn't just for detox purposes, but I would drink to the point that I would saturate my blood and what suffer from hyponatremia, which is literally the, the dilution of your blood sodium. So the sodium levels in my blood would become so dangerously low that I was preceding. And so every time that I would reach that point and it got to the, it got to the point that between 2018 and 2020 eyes was, I was hospitalized five different times. Some of them, I was taken by ambulance. Some of them, I would have a friend take me the most severe. Incident and February of 2020 was actually asking my father to take me to the hospital. And that was the most serious serious hospital stay, where it was not expected for me to see. Deb: Wow. And so this was all attributed to drinking, but your body in particular, just like dumped sodium basically. And then you would go and get fluids and get detoxed as well. Yeah. Angie: So I was getting fluids, but it wasn't as easy as just going to get hooked up to an IB. So I was detoxing at the same time that. And of course all the other health issues, you know, kidney failure, my liver was in a very unhealthy way. So I was struggling with those issues on top of the dehydration that would come as an effect of it. And so I was in intensive care for five days. At the last hospitalization and I'm really, really foggy about most of it. One thing that clearly stood out to me and at the time, I didn't know if it was, it w if it was hallucinations or what it was, but I remembered, and this was validated after the fact I was physically restrained to the bed because I became so agitated that I was ripping the IVs out of my. And again, you know, speaking after the fact to my psychiatrist, Who, you know, read through the notes and, and kind of from a medical perspective was pretty straightforward in how dangerously ill I truly was. The day that I got discharged from the hospital in February of 2020, thankfully the doctor and it wasn't my regular family doctor was whomever was. You know, making the rounds to discharge patients that day sat me down and looked me straight in the eye and said, you have two choices. He said, you can keep drinking and you will die. Or you can choose to stop drinking and have a chance at a better life. And I don't, I don't know if it was the way he said it that it, it wasn't sugarcoating it at all. I don't know if it was just the right time for me to finally hear that message and want to take action on that message. But I knew that. I needed to make changes and needed to make serious changes. So when I was discharged, I entered an intensive outpatient treatment program. And was doing nine hours of face-to-face visits and group therapy. And of course, all that was presented kind of within the context of individual sessions and group sessions was really the most well-known 12 step program of alcoholics anonymous. So representatives from AA would come in and speak and I. Have a higher power. I'm Catholic. I am spiritual. I believe in God. However, I needed more practical tools. Then what I felt I could get from AA, I felt a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. And that seemed to be my experience. In the AA meetings that I attended. And I know, I mean, I am so grateful to AE for what they do for millions and millions of people. I just needed something different. And so even as I was kind of thinking about, you know, what that might look like COVID. And put us stop to my services. They were all in person. Of course they were hospital-based and just like most medical facilities are really all facilities. They didn't really have a quick plan for pivoting to the virtual world. And so I was. I was stuck. I knew I didn't want to go back. I knew, I knew I was not going to go back to drinking, but I wasn't sure what resources I had to keep moving forward. So the first thing I did was think about everything in my life. And I was 49 years old, everything in my life, you know, that having had been a professional and having a master's degree and having a wide array of experiences that I could draw from, I remember. An activity that we had done in graduate school 15 years prior. And it was around identifying one's personal values. I just remembered how powerful it was. When we did it as a learning team back in grad school. I remember thinking, I wonder if I have that activity anywhere. So I dug through a box of grad school stuff and of course, found that activity and lead myself through. And realigned myself with who I really am and based on my five core values of love, growth, connection, gratitude, and wellbeing, knowing that as long as I match my actions with my values, There's no place for alcohol or really any problematic or addictive behaviors. And that's what got me through staying sober in the middle of a global pandemic was relying on my values and then looking for ways that could keep me grounded in my bad. I found this naked mind and we are the luckiest with Laura McKowen. So kind of leveraging the work that Annie grace and Laura McCowen had done and looking at the live alcoholic spearmint. And since it was COVID thankfully a lot of community building programs. We're quickly put together. I started mentoring for this naked mind and their groups. I got involved in the luckiest club, which offers a large number of different connection calls and really surrounded myself with as much positive and strengths based. Material that I possibly could. So listening to podcasts, listening to audio books, I just absorbed as many things as I possibly could to keep me moving forward. Deb: Yeah. So I mean, quite the story of, of going from those hospitalizations to intensive outpatient for those that aren't aware of what that is. Can you describe it a little bit more? Angie: Intensive outpatient treatment is structured in such a way that prevents someone from needing to do additional. Rehab or residential treatment. It is designed in such a way that, you know, with some, with some degree, actually with a large degree of flexibility, someone would be able to kind of adapt their work or school schedule around it. At the time I was unemployed, I honestly had lost a job due to. My reliance and dependence on alcohol and being unemployed was allowing me to fully invest in myself with this program. So, like I said, mine was nine hours of in-person group sessions. So we met from 9:00 AM to noon. On, I think it was three days a week and then would have an hour long individual sessions. And then, you know, it was recommended to attend AA meetings. And at that time, of course, prior to COVID, all of it was done in person. And then things of course changed drastically when the lockdown start. Deb: Yeah, thank you for explaining that this for people that don't know, cause sometimes, you know, it's interesting cause you know, You are told, I'm just going to say in general and what I believe was like, oh, it's either AA or inpatient rehab, and those are my two options. And then finding out, like, there are other options. There are other ways there are other groups And you, I know, or a smart recovery facilitator. Can you explain what smart recovery is? Because I think of that as like maybe the number one alternative to AA. Angie: Yes, absolutely. I did not know about smart recovery. Until I was already sober it wasn't, I was a little over a year ago that I first learned about it. And I don't even remember where I got an inkling of it, but it's a behavioral based framework around really life beyond addiction. So the four points of smart recovery, the first is build and maintain motivation. The second is cope with. The third is managed, thoughts, feelings, and behaviors, and the fourth is live a balanced lifestyle. So each of those four steps offers tools and worksheets and guidance and everything. Research oriented that really supports a behavioral change model. So it was a tool it's as if okay. If you're having a craving, do these things, you know, and that's what I needed. And, and then, because my background is based in, you know, research-based leadership and research based behavior analysis, everything that I've done. You know, there's, there's been that, that element of data or research to support it. And so when I decided to supplement kind of my own recovery coaching background with smart recovery, I knew that that was, that was going to be my, not only for me, but my offering for people like me who are struggling to live a balanced. Fulfilling life beyond addiction. And so smart recovery meetings are free. They are smart. Recovery is a nonprofit organization. So it's free. Well, donations are encouraged of course, but not required. And so my meetings are online every Sunday evening, and I literally have people from across the globe. Who attend? We, I, last night we had an international group. We did have someone from, from Montreal. So that was, that was always, always good. But I have had people join from Australia where it is Monday morning. For them when they're joining my Sunday night meeting and it's, you know, individuals, I do have a pretty consistent core group who's there every week, but there are people who feel like they need a meeting and find my meeting and jump in. And then find that they benefit from our discussions and then they start coming every single week. So it's really, it's really reinforcing, just I will pull in other tools and resources that I've been benefited from just in my own background. But it's all in support of the four points within smart. Deb: Yeah. I always like to mention it because a lot of people don't realize that you can go to smart recovery.org. You can find an online meeting across the world all day, every day, you know, probably not 24 7, but I mean a lot of meetings available. And like you said, It's evidence-based and compassion based. And so I, I'm glad that you shared that Angie: you. Yeah. And self-empowered, you know, and that for me is key because I honestly believe that alcohol buried my power for a very, very, very long time. However, I do not believe at any point that I was powerless. I truly believe that I still, even in the darkest days that I still had that power within me, I just had buried it so down I alcohol had buried it so deeply within that it, I needed a lot of work to help me kind of unleash that. And tap back into the power that I always had. You know, I talk a lot about the quote and the wizard of Oz, where Glinda, the good witch tells Dorothy, you know, you've always had the power. My dear, you just had to learn it for yourself and by offering smart recovery and other self-empowered tools that I have shared to me, that's really what keeps the alcohol-free journey. Long lasting, because we are relying on our own strengths. It's the strengths that I uncovered that kind of kept leading me through the struggles because the struggles don't go away. Right. I mean, life happens, shit happens. And we're still going to have to deal with that stuff. When we're sober, we just are better equipped to handle those situations when we're clear headed. And we've been proactive and understanding where triggers my pop-up and what we can do to prevent, but also to respond appropriately in those situations. Yeah, Deb: look, we'll go way back to values. If, if you're just, you know, someone's listening to this and they're like, what do you mean by values? And how the hell did that keep you sober? Can you Angie: speak that? Yes, I can. Our values serve as an internal company. So just like your, you know, the compass on your phone or the compass in your car, it tells you what direction you're going. And. The direction we're going is misaligned with our values. We feel some form of tension, even if we can't name it, even if it's just a headache or that feeling in the pit of our stomach, something tells us were not in alignment for me being out of alignment for many years. Emotionally, I just didn't even want to deal with that. And so rather than deal with what I was feeling as a result of not being aligned with my values, then I would numb it away. And of course, when you numb away the tension and the stress and all the bad stuff, you also are numbing the joy and euphoria and all the good stuff. But by knowing what matters most to me, and being extremely mindful of agreeing to projects and appointments and opportunities that align with my values, it makes decisions so much easier and it makes boundary setting so much easier. Because I'm setting those boundaries around what protects my energy so that I can more deeply live into my value. So since this impact of values on my, not only really my alcohol-free journey, but really as my life journey has unfolded over the past two and a half ish years, values have, have really been at the, at the cornerstone of decisions and opportunities that I have accepted and I've created kind of recreate. The activity that I did in graduate school by publishing a deck of values to vision cards. And the cards are literally a card deck of 55 word cards. Each card has a word written right on the back that. Represents a commonly held value. So for example, words like accountability, wellness, diversity responsibility. Vulnerability commitment, you know, several, lots of different words that represent commonly held values. The duck also includes two blank cards. So as I'm leading someone through the values experience, it gives them the opportunity to say, oh, you know, I, I really. Have a word that resonates with me as a value that I don't feel as represented in the dock. Well, they have blank cards that they can use for that purpose. So the facilitated aspect of the experience is to have someone literally go through the 55 word cards and sort them into three piles. And the first pile represents what matters most. The second pile is what somewhat matters. And the third pile is what matters least. And as I'm facilitating, I remind the person not to get caught up in the shoe. We don't want to fall victim of shooting ourselves because it's easy to think of, oh, well my partner values this word, so I really should value that word. That should be what matters most to me, or, you know, I was raised with this value being important to my parents. So that really should be in my matters. Most piles. Well, then what happens is we're living our lives based on someone else's set of values. And that was something that, that I did for for many years. And, and so through this facilitated experience, it's really looking at the three piles of cards and ultimately focusing on the, the set or the pile of matters most. And I don't give any instructions in terms of a certain number of cards that should be in each of the three piles. It's really allowing the individual to go through at their own pace really at, at their own. Choice of what matters most, somewhat, and least. And then we will go through kind of a narrowing down process because when we have more than five is the number I use when we have more than five of what matters most in our lives. We start being pulled in multiple directions. So again, using the analogy of the compass, you know, you think of a compass has four main points, and then of course there's sub points in between those four. The more misdirections that we go in. The more detours and roadblocks and obstacles or feeling literally going in different directions. So the greatest degree of clarity one can have on their values is what makes the greatest clarity on decision-making choices on determining whether something is a hell yes or a no, thank you. It really. It really can clarify all the directions that we choose to go in life. Deb: Yeah. So powerful. And what did you say your, your top five values are? Again? I Angie: taught five, our love, growth, connection, gratitude, and wellbeing. So as part of my gratitude practice, which is one of my values every night, I make a list of three good things. And you it's, it's a gratitude list of sorts, but it's, it's got a little different spin on it because by thinking about three good things, I start thinking about. Kind of the little things that might matter, you know, like a text from my son or, you know, because I started doing it, you know, three things I'm thankful for every night. And I, I think I got, I think I found myself getting lazy where I would be like, well, I'm thankful that the sun is shining. I'm thankful that I love my kids. I'm thankful. And it just, I wasn't paying close enough attention throughout the day. To really hone in on those three. Good. And so that's part of my gratitude practice. Wellbeing for me, looks like yoga looks like physical exercise, which is walking. I do a lot. I live downtown Iowa city, so I have almost everything I need within walking distance. So that's a big part of it. But with wellbeing also comes, you know, my, my. Recovery, what am I doing to stay focused on my own recovery and, you know, mental well-being and emotional wellbeing. And so I'm very mindful of what does that look like? I have created as part of the values to vision cards, experience what's called values map. So values mapping is similar to mind mapping, which is something that comes out of design thinking and, and different approaches, but values mapping is putting the value in a center circle. So let's say wellbeing for me would be in my center circle and then drawing circles all around that center circle with. The activities, the appointments, the actions that demonstrate that value. So my value is mapped for wellbeing. I mentioned yoga. I mentioned, you know, walking, which for me is done outside and fresh air is as a big component for me. I love to be creative. So finding a way to create whether that's designing, you know, a social media graphic or that's coloring in a notebook or. Writing a post or a blog article, you know, something creative that I'm doing. Connection is one of my values, but that also relates to well-being for me as well. You know, I'm an empty nester. I live alone. So, you know, I have to be deliberate. If I'm feeling the need to be social, I have to put myself out there and thankfully I live near unimpaired, dry bar. We have activities and events going on almost every night tonight, for example, is bingo night. And so I go down and I do bingo night. So I, I have to be. Creative about ways to ensure that I am living into those values because I know what it feels like when I'm not. And I don't want to sound so Pollyanna about it that you know, that doesn't consider it. Yeah. There's going to be times when we're out of whack with our values the longer those times last and the more frequently they happen. That's when it becomes a problem. And that's when we need to pay attention to the clues that we get from our body. The clues that we might get from other people. For me, I know I start to get crispy around the edges. If I haven't done yoga in a couple of days. And usually my kids will be the ones to say, mom, go do yoga. Because I'm short with them or, you know, I'll, I'll invite people to call me out on it. If I'm being more abrupt or more direct than I usually am, because, you know, sometimes I'm ignoring those, those signs and signals, whereas they're more obvious to the people around. Deb: Yeah, thank you for all those examples, Angie: you bet. Deb: And you can really see how drinking doesn't align exactly Angie: values. Yup. Yup. And for a lot of people probably over 50% of individuals. That I have done the values to vision cards with they have family in their top five. And one of the first questions I ask is, so tell me, what does, what does living into that value of family look like for you? And you know, whether I'm working with a corporate executive as a leadership coach, or I'm working with a group or an individual on the recovery side, you know, Chances are it's their family that they want to uphold as a value, but the actions and the behaviors aren't in alignment with that, and alcohol would be a great example of how alcohol keeps us from being present for our family. It affects our family relationships. It creates a barrier between us and our family members when it comes to communication and an intimacy and healthy, you know, exchange of energy and all of that. And you can, you could see that in many of the different values that are in the deck of how alcohol could really pull one away from living into that bad. Yeah, Deb: that's so important. So first just like identifying what your values are and getting really specific and personal and you, and not shitting all over yourself and then using those to just kind of act as a compass for your life. I like, I love that analogy. Angie: Yeah. Yeah. And using the value map is useful because. Sometimes people will say, well, you know, I say I value connection, but I, but what does that mean? And sometimes you have to help them brainstorm, you know, what does connection mean? You know, does connection mean you'll want to write. Five thank you. Cards or five encouragement cards a week as a way to stay connected. Does connection mean you are active in Facebook groups or community groups or support groups? Maybe that means you are a volunteer and your community. What are different clubs or service organizations? And a lot of times we, especially if drinking has been part of our lives for a long time. We forget what it feels like to enjoy ourselves, to truly enjoy ourselves to the point that we lose track of time and the realm of positive psychology, we call it flow. When you are in the state of flow, you're so engaged with what you're doing, that you literally look up and hours have passed, and we forget what that feels like, because for so long when alcohol has been really the center of our universe, we just haven't been present in anything long enough to help us experience that state of. Deb: Yeah, I I've loved that state. Angie: Me too. Me too. Deb: How do you find your flow now? Angie: I find my flow in a lot of different ways. For me, part of it is knowing kind of. Bio rhythms. So for me, I know that I am most creative early in the morning and I get up naturally very early. And so when I wake up in the morning, of course, my mind is clear. I don't turn on the TV. I don't scroll through Twitter or Facebook. I'll check messages or emails, but I won't, I won't like respond. And, and I let myself just think. And that's when I'll start, the ideas will just start flowing and I'll jot them down. Some of them I'll take action on some of them will be, you know, writing. Like I, I've got an idea for a social media story that I want to write, or I've got an idea for a marketing project. That we could implement at unimpaired or, you know, I've, I've got an idea of a community engagement initiative that we can take part in here in Iowa city. And so just knowing that I'm most creative in the mornings kind of means I can find my flow based on that bio rhythm or that circadian rhythm. So if it's the middle of the afternoon and somebody says, oh, Angie, can you come up with a new marketing thing for us? I'm like I got nothing, but if you let me kind of think about this, chances are tomorrow morning, I'll be able to have a whole list of ideas just because I know that in a later in the afternoon, that's just not my best thinking time. That's not my best creative time. And some of it is just because my head. Has gotten filled with just clutter, but not necessarily in a bad way. Just things that I need to take action on or events that are happening, where I just don't have the bandwidth to be creative at that moment. So I think a lot of it is knowing for me, where am I best set up to be in a state of flow and you know, how can I kind of work that into different periods of my day? Yeah. Deb: Well, you've mentioned unimpaired a few times. Tell me more about this dry bar. Yes. Angie: Right. So unimpaired drive arm is an alcohol free bar and restaurant in downtown Iowa city. It is the second location. So Amber Haynes and Jim Thompson are the two founders and Amber is sober and actually also owns an alcohol bar. But what she found as a bar owner who then became sober herself, was that what draws people to a bar is not necessarily the intent to get drunk. What usually draws people to a bar is because it's a social environment for them is where they find connection. It's where they've got their buddies. It's where they can make. Try to be themselves, but of course alcohol, if it's in front of them, they're going to drink it and then drink more and then drink more. So what Amber noticed is that when people come in and with the intent of just wanting, you know, to enjoy themselves and, and enjoy the company, Quickly that gets turned around where they themselves aren't enjoyable company to be around. They aren't able to communicate or connect. And she had the idea, what would it be like if we recreated everything that a bar has minus alcohol and that's what led to unimpaired. So the original location is in downtown Davenport and that opened in 2012. Unimpaired here in Iowa city open last October of 2021 and Iowa city. And the university of Iowa have been regularly featured, I guess, as one of the bigger party schools, you know, the downtown drinking party scene. And so having a alcohol-free bar in the middle of that community, Was a huge risk that has generated such wonderful results in terms of engagement with the college, with the community, with individuals who it's not even about being sober, it's about having choices. You know, it no longer, I shouldn't say it no longer. We are getting closer to the point where it no longer matters. Why somebody doesn't. Right. My story is because I am in recovery. I had a problem with alcohol and I took steps to address that. That's not everybody's story. You know, there's college students who are not 21 and they want a place where they can shoot pool and play darts and have great pizza and good food and cool drinks that aren't just, you know, watered down versions of. Alcohol fueled drinks, but we carry brands. We have athletic brewing for all of the beer side, as well as you know, Heineken zero and bud zero. We have a full away of the seed lip and the ritual and liars, and thankfully more and more brands are coming out with great tasting alcohol free spirits that make drinking. Not an alcohol options, just phenomenal. And that's what we're seeing a lot of. So just based on a growing level of interest in the sober curiosity movement and in offering college towns an option, we are entering franchisee. So we've already had people express interest in putting an unimpaired to drive our in their communities. And we will be finalizing the franchise documentation within the next month and then expect to be able to legally. Seek franchise opportunities with other individuals by August. So that's the timeframe and it's, it's just going gang busters. So I'm vice-president for franchising and org development. I am also the acting general manager here in Iowa city. Because obviously as the VP for franchising, all of the future franchises. We'll be built based on Iowa city specifications. So to ensure that we have the standardization and consistency and all the policies and procedures from the operations side, but also from the management and the leadership side, then we're able to replicate that in a way that will offer franchise owners really. Toolkit, you know, it's, it's a franchise in a box, so to speak where we will already have all the, all the specifications laid out and be able to support them in being successful in owning and operating an alcohol-free bar and restaurant. Well, Deb: that is so cool. It's almost like just like you were meant to be for this position. Angie: It is. It's surreal. Honestly, if I stop and think about it too often, I do. I get teary-eyed and I get goosebumps because. I don't want to cry because it's, it's literally the nexus of everything that I've done in my life from having been, you know, an executive director of a chamber of commerce to having worked with nonprofits, to being active as a community, volunteer, all of those skills are now coming together in a way that helps me. Not only provide options to others who are seeking to live an alcohol-free life or enjoy an alcohol free night but also in power others in being able to do the same in their own communities and run a successful. Deb: Oh, it's so I felt like standing ovation. Ugh. Well, I hope that we get one here in Boise, Idaho. We have a university here and you are seeing more dry, you know, not just your bar, but like in general, are you seeing more dry bars and bigger? Angie: Yes, more bigger cities. And there will be opportunities also that if those kinds of independent locations choose to align with, you know, a parent brand that we can bring them in under unimpaired and provide them with the same degree of marketing support and franchise owners support, you know, honestly, I just love seeing the alcohol free. Culture picking up steam and building momentum. It feels so, so empowering to no longer be in a, looked at with some type of question mark on one space in terms of why, why aren't you drinking or what, what are you drinking? We carry. Athletic brewing company. And they have just been gracious and sending us, you know, materials and posters and people will come in asking for athletic brewing because they have seen ads of it, you know, as well as, as some of the other marketing, it's just becoming much more mainstream. And I think we are only at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to fueling all of the exciting opportunities that the alcohol-free movement can be. It, it it's a movement. It is Deb: we're are there. Oh, good. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Is there, is there anything you'd like to share before we end to people who are listening? Angie: Honestly, my invitation to everyone is to spend time getting up close and personal with our values. And it doesn't matter where they're at on their alcohol-free journey, if it hasn't yet started, if they're not sure where it's leading, if they've been on it for a while and might just feel the feeling that they've hit a plateau. Reflecting and living more deeply into one's values can often be the trajectory that moves someone even further into their hopes and dreams and what they want to achieve in all areas of their life. Regardless of where they're at at the moment, Deb: well said, then how can people find. Angie: The best way to find me is a direct email, always works. And that's [email protected] I am active on social media from LinkedIn to Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. So I'm pretty easy to get a hold of with questions I'm not active in recovery coaching at the moment, simply because of my other professional obligations, but I do have a huge network of professionals. Like yourself that I feel comfortable referring individuals to, if they're looking for services kind of beyond what I can provide. So I can, I can be a connection point and kind of a referral source and two different programs that I'm aware of that can help them kind of continue to grow and expand for themselves. Deb: Perfect. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was wonderful. And I hope to see some more unimpaired, dry bars popping up around the states. If you're listening and you're like wanting to pivot, maybe this is Angie: your thing. So that's right. Happy to help. Deb: Great. Well, have a wonderful day and thank you all for listening.

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