How to Get and Stay Sober with Judy Cook

Episode 67 June 22, 2022 00:40:35
How to Get and Stay Sober with Judy Cook
Alcohol Tipping Point
How to Get and Stay Sober with Judy Cook

Jun 22 2022 | 00:40:35


Hosted By

Deb Masner

Show Notes

Boozeless British Babe Judy Cook joins the show! Judy is a part of my Alcoholiday group and is on the show to share her story of becoming truly alcohol free. Judy has been alcohol free for over 2 years and continues to learn and grow. Along the way she became a sober coach and inspired her husband to quit drinking. Judy has so many gems of wisdom you won’t want to miss this episode. Pour yourself a cup of tea and listen in. 

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Episode Transcript

Judy Pod deb: Welcome back to the alcohol tipping point podcast. I am your host, Deb Masner. I am a registered nurse health coach and alcohol free badass. And today on the show, I have Judy Cook, who is coming to us from Britain. She is the Booz Britain, babe. I call her and she has been a member of the holiday. Was it January. Yeah. Judy. Yeah. And been sober for two years and some odd months. So I, I'm delighted to have you on the show and, and just share your wisdom. Welcome Judy, why don't you introduce yourself and, and tell the listeners a little bit about you. judy: Oh, well, thank you for having me. It's really kind of you to ask me to do this and, and I do love your group. It's fantastic. So, yeah, I'm one of your older members live near Manchester and I am on a very nice alcohol free journey, which I've been on for two years, three months and four days And if anybody had said to me, Judy stopped drinking, I would've, I wouldn't have believed them because I actually drank daily for 42 years. So to actually have stopped is, is absolutely amazing. You know, I have to pinch myself sometimes because I can't believe I've done it, but if I can do it at my age, honestly, anybody can do it. deb: Well, tell me more about your story. judy: Okay. Well, I had a really happy childhood, but I was brought very strict. My parents were both doctors and they expected me to. One day, be a doctor, which I didn't want to be. I have a twin sister and an older sister, and we were all brought up really quite strict. There was no alcohol in the house apart from Christmas. And there would be a bottle of wine between the five of us. And that would be it very occasionally I might have seen my father drink a martini but you know, It was, it was frowned upon. And as I grow, well, I wasn't interested in alcohol, but I do remember on my 18th birthday, when you're allowed to go to a pub in this country, one of my friends said, let's go to the pub and have a drink. And I was a bit naive. I thought, well, why would you want to go to a pub and have a drink if you're not thirsty? I just didn't understand why you'd want to do that. So alcohol was not a problem at all. And then I I got married. I was working as a teacher in a primary school and eventually my career took off and I bought and owned my own private school, which was amazing. I was head teacher for 28 years. I think I would call myself a highly functional. Alcoholic at that time, because I started drinking around about the age of 28, which is quite late. But I'd drank every day. Every day I had to go home after work, I would go home and start the wine and I thought it just carried on after that. I have two children, obviously. I didn't drink when I was pregnant, but the minutes I was back home with my babies, I started to drink. My husband's family, they drank quite often and I can always remember going, I can always remember going on my honeymoon. And my husband said to me, should we have a bottle of wine with our dinner? And I thought you can't have a whole bottle of wine with your dinner. You know, it just wasn't anything that said I was I'd known. So I, I gradually got introduced to wine once I was married. And then with my job working. It was more like a reward. When I get home, I, I need a reward and that went on for years and years, we always had all inclusive holidays. I could Ima not imagine anybody wanting to go on holiday and then not being all inclusive. You know, you want your drinks. That's the most important bit. So every holiday we went on wine was the main thing. My, my daughter got married and she insisted on having the wedding reception at our house. A Marqui well, we didn't live in that big house, but we managed to fit a Marqui in the garden. And she insisted on having a free bar for all the guests. So we had to order all this wine and beer, and I can remember it stacked up in the garage, but I'll just help myself. I just kept going out and getting a bottle and bringing it in. I just help myself. And if ever, we went out for dinner wine would be the main thing. Forget the food, it's the wine and this just carried on and on and on now, I, I was married for 32 years and then sadly, my marriage came to an end, nothing to do with the alcohol at all. I decided to leave my husband. We we've drifted a past and I. I left and I moved into my own little house, but at the time I said to myself so long as I've got my wine, my friend I'll be alright. I actually remember saying it to myself. You know, I've, I'll manage, I manage, but I've got my wine and I just grew from there. I met Richard who's my husband, 11 years tomorrow. I met him in 2007. And the first thing we did was we went to a pub on our first date. We went to a pub and he drank as well. Now, rich has been drinking for 51 years. He was in the armed services and forces. He was a firefighter and they obviously after work, drank a drunk. So here we are, both of us starting off a married life, both drinking. Not a problem. Not, not like wake up in the morning and then need a drink, nothing like that. It was just every single day in an evening. Start on the drink. But we're talking about me here when I used to come home from work at about eight o'clock because I, I became a private tutor. So I was tutoring children at home after school till about eight o'clock at night, come home. What do I want a reward? There's the wine and Richie would have my glass of wine ready for me. I got to the point where I would have a bottle of wine more and I'd even take the glass of wine to bed. I wouldn't remember what I'd made for tea. I wouldn't remember what I'd eaten for tea. I wouldn't remember the conversation I'd had, and this was really bad. This was like a, a blackout. Every single night and I'd wake up in the morning and I'd say, all right, Judy stop. But by five o'clock, six o'clock, seven o'clock. There we go again. Richard would just drink his beers. I don't really, I think Richard could have stopped at any time, but I, I always wanted to know there was plenty of wine in the house. I used to hide it. I used to put it in the kitchen cupboard so that nobody could say it and I could drink it a bit quick. If we went out for a meal and I was asked, would you like small, medium or large? Well, that, that wouldn't be enough as I was drinking the first glass, I was thinking of the second glass, you know, but I, I, I dunno, it just carried on and carried on. I'd never had a rock bottom moment, holidays. Honestly, we went on a cruise. And we were allowed to take as many suitcases as we wanted because we weren't going to fly. We were going to drive to Southampton. I packed bottles of wine, boxes of wine bottles of Picardi a bottle of Sherry, a bottle of gin. We got on the ship as if there wasn't a fun ship and I could have done in the wardrobe. Didn't want to run out. And then we'd go down and up to the ship for dinner and then it'd be champagne and yeah, I'll have one. I'll have two. Oh honestly just a vicious circle. This went on and on and on, on and on. And on 42 years, Richard never said anything. I knew I had a problem and I didn't want to go to AA. No way. I couldn't, I couldn't plug up the codes to go to AA. I might see somebody, I know. My neighbor might see me. I started buying boxes of wine so that when I put them in the bin, they didn't make a noise. anyway, March the third, 2020, it was locked down here in this country. I thought, how am I going to get my wine? How am I going to go and buy my wine? Cuz we're not allowed to go out until it's, unless it's vital. I thought, Judy, this is the time to stop. And I couldn't work. I wasn't allowed to go into houses to tutor my children because I wasn't allowed you weren't allowed to. So for 18 weeks I could not work. So those 18 weeks I said to myself right now is the time to stop March. The third I woke up, my fingers were tingling. My toes were tingling. That is a sign of alcohol poisoning. It really frightened me. I went into the kitchen, found all the alcohol. I could find poured it down the sink without anyone seeing threw the bottles away, went on Facebook, searching for help. Hadn't a clue what to do. And for some reason, this advert came up, Simon chapel was offering a free half hour phone call. For somebody who wants to give up drinking. So I booked him in, so that particular morning I was waiting for my phone call. I crept into the woods behind my house with my little dog and the mobile phone hadn't even told Richard I was stopping. I was that embarrassed. I went into the woods and I waited for the phone call and Simon rang. We spent an hour on the phone and he said, Judy, you've already started your journey because you are aware of what you're doing. And you are obviously ready to educate yourself. You're halfway there. He offered to give me one to one coaching. Do you know what I skipped home? I was so happy that I'd told somebody. I can't explain. I told a total stranger, I had a problem with drinking and I skipped home ready to start my journey. So for the next few weeks, I had a zoom with Simon on a one Toone in the bedroom without my husband, knowing he thought I was doing something else. I just didn't tell him I was too embarrassed for 18 weeks. I studied like an exam. I watched two videos every day for 18 weeks. I, I wrote my journal. I watched all sorts. I read books. I joined groups. I did zooms and I, that was it. That was me. I'm on my journey. I bought loads and loads of alcohol free drinks just matters of them just to have to have choice. And then I said to Richard, you know, I'm, I'm doing this journey now. And I didn't ask him to stop. He bought me a little trolley to put all my drinks on and I had all these beautiful alcohol free drinks. So every evening I go to the trolley, pour myself my alcohol-free wine. In my glass, I bought a special glass and I made it as exciting as I could. I joined zooms, joined groups. I'm in so many groups and, and this was it. I got connected. I got connected. So then Simon's coaching became monthly to monthly, two monthly, six monthly. Got to a year. Then I had to do my first alcohol free holiday. I was dreading it. In fact, I canceled a few holidays. I couldn't do it. And eventually I booked up the courage and we booked a cruise for early four nights. I treated it like an experiment. I planned planned planned plan ahead. Don't dread. I took with me bottles of alcohol, free wine, alcohol free beer in my suitcase. Again, got to the cabin. There was a bottle of champagne there as there is usually I picked it up, put it out in the corridor. Because I knew it would be there. So I had planned, I thoroughly enjoyed my four night cruise without a drink. And on the last night I was in the cabin on my own and I did a dance. I was so happy. I've done it. I've done it. I was so happy. Simon had said to me, you know, get on that cruise, do it. You're gonna I'm you're gonna be accountable to me cuz when you get off that ship, you come in to have coffee in my house. I didn't dare drink. Did I? so we got off the ship, went to Simon's house. He gave me a huge hug. We sat in his kitchen, talking, talking, talking about sobriety. And as we came out the front door, Richard said to me, Judy, I've decided after listening to you two, I'm gonna quit. But I was just drinking on the ship for drinking sake. I wasn't enjoying it. And that was September the 14th. And he's not drunk since. So we're now both on the journey together. It's brilliant because it makes it easier for me. And he's found it quite easy. Actually. He doesn't need to do all the coaching and the zooms and the books, but I, I like to do it. So we now come to February, we both trained to become sobriety coaches. We had to do a hundred hours studying. We had to do a case study. I found a lady in Australia, did a coach, a case study with her, had to write an essay, a thousand words, and we both qualified. Wow. What an amazing thing to happen. So we now coach. Together, not a lot, just a little bit. Our lives have changed. We have a fantastic relationship quite often. We'll go shopping and rich Richard will joke, oh, let's go and buy a pack of 12 beers, joking. you know, he can just joke about it. So there we are. We're back, back to today. There's no alcohol in the house. There's no alcohol hiding in the cupboards or in my handbag. I used to have those little mini wines you could put in your handbag. Cause there might not be enough when I go out. Do you know when I was drinking the minute I used to wake up in the morning within 60 seconds, I was thinking of, have I got of wine for tonight? And where does I put the bottles last night? Now I wake up and I think of three things. I'm grateful for. What a difference before I go to bed, I say to myself, what one thing are you really proud of today? Not drinking. So now I'm, I'm enjoying my life. I am, I've got my duty back. I am living for the moment I'm living for now. I'm not living for tomorrow or next week and have a got enough wine for next week. And I need to go to the shops. That's quite tiring. It's, it's a vicious circle. Richard describes it like being on a, a fair ground. You know, the horses that go up and down, you're going on a fairground is never ending. And you know, Mr. Fairground rider, please stop the ride. I want to get off. And that's where we are now. We've got off that ride. Now I'm nearly 70. And a lot of people think, well, I'm, I'm in my comfort zone. I can't stop, but you can. And I think what what's done it for me is you have to ask yourself your why. Why did I stop health? I was scared, stiff about my fingers and toes health. You've only got one liver you've only got one life. Alcohol causes so much damage. The substance I know it's addictive to, to humans is not our fault, but I've lost my train of thought now. Yeah. Why you've got to ask yourself why you want to give up and you've got to learn that why by heart and never forget it. Every single day I woke up and I say to myself, nothing I do today requires me to drink alcohol. Nothing, not even my wedding anniversary tomorrow, not even the fact that today's Friday. There's a, a really good man called Andy Ramage. I dunno if you've heard of him. He's a fantastic alcohol-free man. Don't drink on any day. That ends in D a Y . deb: Oh, I love that quote. judy: So you've got to know your WIS by heart. You've got to stay inspired and you've got to stay connected. You cannot do this journey on your own. Absolutely not. And the other thing is I thought I was the only person that hit the wine. The only person that couldn't stop drinking wine, the only person that goes to the supermarket and I'm in the wine aisle again, why is nobody else buying it? As often as me, you think you're the only person, but then you realize you're not. And I think when you do join the groups and you know, like your beautiful group, we're all talking once you've shared your story. Halfway there and you don't have guilt. You don't have shame because we aren't weak. It's not us. It's the alcohol it's doing its job. Isn't it. It's addictive. So that's where we're up to. In my journey. deb: yeah. I mean, just so beautifully said, I could just listen to you all day, Judy. Oh, that's great. I'm sure that the people who are listening are, are feeling the same too. And they can just tell how grateful you are to be where you are right now. judy: I am grateful and my sobriety journey, you know, putting the glass of wine down is the beginning. Once you've done that, you're free. What does a car say? He says three things. Alcohol does absolutely nothing for you. There's no such thing. As one, the minute you put your last glass of Dr. Alcohol down, you are free, simple, and I am free. And the thing is, I now have a life coach. So I'm learning about inner child living for them now. Gratitude. Affirmations. I I'm learning so much about me and I'll never stop learning every time I turn my iPad on and, oh, there's a new person to follow. Oh, I'm now following Craig back. He's brilliant. Kevin O'Hara Annie grace. I obviously love sober Dave William Porter. It just goes on and on, on all these people. Your life just changes. The minute you put that alcohol down, you are you're free. And nobody can do it for you. You've got to do it yourself. I mean, I've done the work. I've got journal after journal notes. After notes, probably spend a couple of hours a day doing my alcohol, call it my alcohol free work because I love it. And I get texts and messages of people, Judy, I saw a little post, can you just help me? And I I'm on day four and what do I do? And I, I love to jolly people along because then they know that there's somebody there for them, you know? And I think because I'm a teach, I know a teacher and a coach are completely different. A teacher teaches a coach, takes somebody from where they are. To where they want to be bit like a coach in horses. So I know it's slightly different, but I think I, I I've proved that you can stop drinking at any age. You're not, you're never too old. deb: Yeah. That's such a powerful message. You're never too old. What would be some of your top tips? I mean, you shared a lot of, of what was helpful for you when you were quitting. What are some that stand out for you? judy: Okay. I would say, as already said, plan ahead. Planning is 95% of the success. I would say, try to picture your future self step into who you want to be. You are now a non-drinker. Identify yourself as a non-drinker. If you say to yourself, I am a non-drinker and believe it because how you speak to yourself, your language, I think is quite important. The three CS get a coach commitment community. I would also say You you've made one decision. You made one decision. Your one decision is to stop drinking. Even if you are in the drinker's mind frame of mind, commit yourself a hundred percent. I, I, I, I literally went cold Turkey. When I stopped and that's the best way to do it, but that's the way I did it. Educate yourself, read podcasts. Just make it your priority. Make it before everything else study like an exam, but enjoy it. deb: Yeah, that's what I get out of you is just joy. Just, judy: yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not losing anything. You're not losing anything. I think people are worried if I give up drinking, I'm gonna be boring. I'm going to be sad. It's the opposite. But, but I think you, you can't do it overnight, as you always say, we're learning aren't we were learning to stop drinking. As Richard says, you don't go and buy a pair of trainers on Tuesday. And when a marathon on we. You have to train. You have to do it over time. I'll tell you something else. Ash. I love doing count. The, I love counting the days now. Some people don't, but I have an app called I am sober and then suddenly to look and go, oh, I'm 11 days. I'm nearly 20 days for me. It was really exciting. And when I see posts on Facebook with somebody I'm day 55 or I'm day five, I'll put thumbs up for them. Because it's a massive thing. Another tip every little win pack yourself on the back. If you go to bed sober, just be so happy. You know, it's, it's huge. Yeah. deb: Yeah, I think that's important to like celebrate the wins. Absolutely. And give yourself sober treats and acknowledge it and be like, I am having this chocolate cake tonight because I did not drink today. You know, like I earned this and I still do that too. Every night I go to bed and I'm like, I'm so glad I didn't drink. And every morning I'm like, I'm so grateful. I didn't drink. I mean still, right? judy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I first stopped drinking, the first thing I did was went and bought ice cream. I can treat myself to ice cream. It was amazing. All right. Then you gotta start getting rid of the sugar cravings, but just do with one thing at a time, do not drink tonight. I'll not drink. Just saturate your brain, you know, with changing those neural pathways. And it does take time. But you've got to believe that you can do it. You can, you can do it. Yeah. Can you deb: talk more to people who are in a relationship still with someone who drinks like that seems to be really hard for a lot of judy: couples? Yes, I agree. And when I first stopped drinking, rich was still drinking. He was drinking every night. Larga cardian Coke. I'd carry it into the house for him. And he'd say to me can you put them in the fridge? Can you put the cold ones at the back and rotate them so that when I go and get one, it's always cold. Ah, what'll carry on. But you know, I used to just get them out the fridge and pass them to them. Well, those are his, they're not mine. I think if you've got your own special drinks, I mean, I dunno what you have. If you have special alcohol free drinks, I think if you've got your own, you're looking after yourself, just leave that person to do their thing. I do know one person who's failing it hard at the moment because their husband walks in with a box of wine every night. And he's quite a big drinker that is very, very hard. Very hard, but I think you've got to say, look, this is my journey. And I'm making myself priority. If you want to drink, you drink. But I'm looking after me. deb: And like you said, like, if you need to remove yourself from the room, if you need to go do a zoom in your bedroom, if you're, if you know, if they're going to drink and you don't wanna be around it, then you don't need to be around them. judy: That's right. Go out, go to the gym, go for a walk. That's another thing with cravings. Cravings are a funny thing. They soon disappear don't they cravings really. After a few days I've gone. The craving is just a thought. You're not, you are the boss of those thoughts. People say, if you've got a craving, leave the room and go in a different room. That really helps. When you mentioned the word rule, leave the room. I just crossed my mind then. deb: yeah. What are some other craving tips you have? judy: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Yeah. Look for five things. You can see. Concentrate on four things. You can hear three things. You can touch two things you can smell. And one thing you can taste. It's a brilliant exercise. And once you've done that, craving's gone. Simon chapel always says, do some star jumps, brush teeth, chew some gum, get some alcohol free drinks that does the trick because you think you've got the real thing. The cravings go. They're only temporary. Oh, that's 20 minutes change gear. You know, if you're walking, run if you're lying down, get up. yeah. deb: Yeah. I agree. Those are all great tips. I know that you had written a poem about alcohol and, and leaving it behind. Can you share that poem? judy: Yeah. Well, what I did when I first started my journey, I, I, I sort of used to line bed wide awake and my mind was worrying and I actually did. I made a poem up, right. This was right at the beginning of my journey. And then later on I did a divorce letter, but I've got the poem here. Here we go. I was worried about my drinking. And so it got me thinking, my name is Judy Cook. But I didn't know where to look. One day I looked on Facebook, but where should I start to look? I came across Simon chapel, as he says, Simon, then apple. And so began my journey to sobriety with tools to help me of every variety, podcasts, YouTube, zooms, and Facebook. That was to be the last drink I took. Discover your trigger. Your belief will be bigger. Train your brain. Stand in the rain, sit with your craving. It will be your saving, change, your mindset, and you will forget that drink you once. Yearned, another milestone was earned. Minutes hours days a week, alcohol free is what I seek. Thoughts of alcohol. A few, and my life is now incredibly new. I am now alcohol free and I'm very proud of me with all the help of all my sober. My journey will never be over. I'm now 800 days and counting, thanks to all for never doubting. I strive to be my best. My passion will never rest. deb: Awesome. Well, that is wonderful. That is so good. judy: Took me about a week to write that. deb: I love it. I thank you for sharing that. judy: Ask you welcome, honestly, deb: wait, is there anything you would say to someone who's listening and they're just like, where do I start? judy: Start by reaching out to a group like tipping point for help. Don't do it on your own. Don't do it on your own. Reach out. I've got little note here that says the only reason you drink is that your brain tells you that alcohol has a solution to all life's problems. And I think, look at that drink and think, look what what's in. That glass is not going to do anything for me, especially not my health. Be courageous, pour it away. Get rid of the alcohol. Once the alcohol's gone and at the house, it, the voice stops asking for it. Get into a group, get connected and get started. deb: Yeah. Wonderful. And how about for those that are, they've done like their month? They, maybe they have more than 30 days and they're thinking, how can I maintain this? How do I maintain long term sobriety? What would you say to those people? judy: Keep getting excited. Don't lose momentum, keep connected and help other people cause helping other people helps you. deb: Yeah, so wise, so good. judy: You know, this journey will never end. So the sobriety journey is not a destination. It never ends because it leads to other things. I'm learning all about self development now, and other things, alcohol is now insignificant. It's gone, but be careful. You've got to be careful. The wheels, as they say, the wheels of sobriety can fall off in five minutes. You know, you've got to be careful. You've got to plan. If you're going out, plan, what am I going to drink? When I get to that hotel, we're going out for our lunch tomorrow for our anniversary. I've already decided when I get asked, what do you want to drink straight away? It'll come outta my mouth. What I want? I'll tell 'em straight away. It's not. Oh well I'd love a glass of wine and that looks nice. What that lady's got. You've got to have it in your mind. You are a non-drinker. And be proud and you are a completely different person. You're back. You find yourself and you know, I'm not so bad. , you're not bad at all at all. When I was drinking, you know, I was bad tempered. I was awful. I used to argue and used to say things that I didn't mean because. The alcohol takes over you, doesn't it? That your personality, the minute you have that sip takes over you, you're not that same person. How deb: would you describe yourself now? judy: Ooh. How God made me. Yeah. How, how I'm meant to be. And you know, I quite often think back to my childhood. I really enjoyed doing that and that, and that, and I didn't need a drink to play in the garden, used to love it. My bike, I used to have a horse. I didn't need a drink. And the other thing is I've got lots of old photographs and memorabilia. I look back at them and think little Judy would not be proud of me. That's how I look. It is. deb: Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned pride a lot and I, I think that's so important. And just the, the boost in your self confidence and your self esteem and the amount of pride you feel for just doing something hard, like we can do hard things and it sounds, judy: yeah. And I think the other thing is, you know, when I was drinking, I was always judging. Judging people judging things that's wrong. Moaning complaining changed up for gratitude. And you realize how lucky you are, you know every morning Richard and I, when we wake up, we, we think of three things that we're grateful for between. We talk about it between us this morning. I did the first two and I said to Richard, what would you like for number three? He said, well, we're safe. And that lovely. Yeah. Yeah. And the mental things like that are so important, you know? Yeah. Gratitude and I love my mantras, you know, I love finding new mantras and sticking them on the wall. deb: Let's hear some of your, yeah, I hear some of judy: them. I don't think I've got any handy, but I'll tell you that's another tip for somebody starting, write them out and stick them on the fridge. Nothing I do today requires me to drink alcohol, stick it on the fridge, stick it on the mirror. I love my sayings. Yeah. I love them all. Yeah. I call it my sparkly sober path. deb: it is. I I've said that, like getting sobers, like taking a sparkle pill. judy: yeah, certainly is . One of my mantras it's the successful ones are the, do. Yeah, you, it's not gonna come to you. You've got to do it. You've got to make that one decision and do it. There's so much help out there. And, and just, if you look at all the sober people, they're so happy and they're so genuine. I mean, I, I do 14 zooms a week. That's because I want to. So instead of running home for the wine, I run home for the zooms. deb: Yeah, you're, you're finding connection and you're giving back and, and it just seems like such a natural fit for you. You're, you know, having your teaching experience, being just a lifelong learner, I'm sure that you are a wonderful coach and it's almost like it all led up to this for you to help other people and have meaning in your life. judy: Yeah. And, and if anybody had. To me, Judy, you're going to be a sobriety coach. What, you know, it's, it's just amazing little by little day by day. What is meant for me will come my way. And that is so true. Can you tell, I've got a life coach? I love deb: it. Well, how, how can someone find you? judy: That's a good question. How can they find me? I'm on face. I haven't got a website with my coaching, but there's B sober. BWE B There's a website on there and there's a little link at the top that says coaches and I am in there, or they can just find basically on Facebook, my name and Judy Cook. Yeah. But I am under be sober as a coach. There's a little picture of me with my husband. deb: Oh, that's wonderful. And you all could join the holiday and meet Judy in there too. Yeah, judy: of course. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's brilliant. That's honestly but brilliant group, plenty going on. Plenty to learn. I mean, even with the tipping point, you know, I've got my own file. Fill out with all my notes and you color any calendar. Yeah. It's make it fun. deb: Yeah, make it fun. I mean, I'm, I'm just so grateful to know you, to have you in my life. Have you in the group, like thank you so much. Thanks for sharing your story. And I'm sure that it's gonna help other people too so much gratitude for you. judy: Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. Thank you. Thank you.

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Raising the Bar on Alcohol-Free Drinks with Abbie Romanul

Today’s podcast guest is Abbie Romanul, the founder of Raising the Bar, a company that makes non-alcoholic cocktails. Abbie started this business in 2020...