[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. I'm your host, Deb Maisner. I'm a registered nurse, health coach, and alcohol free badass. I have found that there's more than one way to address drinking. If you've ever asked yourself if drinking is taking more than it's giving, or if you've found that you're drinking more than usual, you may have reached your own alcohol tipping point. The alcohol tipping point is a podcast for you to find tips, tools, and thoughts to change your drinking. Whether whether you're ready to quit forever or a week, this is the place for you. You are not stuck, and you can change.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Let's get started.
Welcome to today's episode. I am just thrilled to have Tony will with us. Toni has been the general manager and governor of the Kalamazoo Wings, a men's professional hockey team in Michigan. She's been doing that for over a decade. She made history as the first female GM on the East Coast Hockey League board of governors. Way to go. In 2020, Tony founded mindfulness. Elevated to help others achieve freedom from substances and reach their fitness and nutrition goals. By 2023, she expanded her business to include professional development coaching through Tony will coaching. Passionate about empowering emerging leaders and entrepreneurs, Tony launched the Women in podcast in 2024, celebrating women from all walks of life and the people who support them. I was honored to be on her show, so thank you, Tony. It was just a great interview. I'm excited for that to come out, which it will already be out by the time you listen to this, so I'll make sure to link to that in our show notes. Tony lives in Kalamazoo with her husband Josh and their three young children, Grace, Landon, and Chloe. Welcome to the show, Tony.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Hello, Deb.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: This is so exciting.
[00:01:58] Speaker C: You're so calming, too. I need some of your calming energy.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: It's the tea. It's all this tea. I'm drinking tea.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: I'm always pouncing off the walls and.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: I'm like, ah, well, I'm so glad you're here. As I was, I was telling you earlier, I was working on your intro and I was like, okay, I gotta hear how you ended up in hockey. So can we start there?
[00:02:24] Speaker C: We can. And it is an interesting story because, so I did not intend to be in sports. I so growing up, I was like a recreational athlete. I was a gymnast and a cheerleader. And I like to remind everyone that, yes, cheerleading is a sport. And then in my twenties and thirties, I was an endurance athlete. So I was a marathon runner. I did triathlons of varying distances.
And I went to college, I got my degree in business, but I never, ever thought in a million years I would be running a men's professional hockey team.
The short answer is it was on accident.
But I'll give a little bit more detailed response, which is, I was running the chamber of commerce here in Kalamazoo, and I loved what I did externally out in the community, because I'm born and raised here. I loved it, loved it, loved it. But I didn't love the culture internally. And so I decided to leave in my mid thirties with a mortgage and three kids. And rebel Tony was in full effect. And I just was like, I want to find somewhere where my core values align with the organization I'm working for. And so it took me about four months, and I actually wanted less responsibility. So I applied for a job in a high end fashion boutique in Kalamazoo called Sydney. And I used to shop there, only on sale. And I'm like, this is great, because I've always kind of liked fashion and clothes and stuff like that. And I was like, this will be great. Something new. I haven't done this before. I'll have less responsibility of less things to worry about. And they said, tony, we think you'll get bored. And I said, I know, and I want to be bored. And HR was like, we have something else for you in mind. And I said, what's that? So the Greenleaf hospitality group owns different. They own a hotel, retail, restaurants, and a professional hockey team. And they said, what do you think about the Kalamazoo wings? And I come to a few games when I was growing up, and I said, the hockey team? And she goes, yeah. And I said, it's still around.
And she goes, well, that's the problem. And we'd like you to come in and help turn it around. And this is literally what I said. I said, I don't know shit about hockey.
And she goes, no, that's okay. We don't want someone that knows hockey. We want someone that knows how to sell, that can lead a strong, effective culture, and loves Kalamazoo and knows how to run a business. And so I took. Now, I had already left my, my job, but I took a 35% pay cut.
And I said yes, because one of my beliefs always, and I teach my kids, is they're, well, they're all young adults now, but I never follow the money, because if I'm passionate about something, the money will follow, is my belief. And so I said yes to the best job. I never knew I wanted. And here we are, ten years later.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. That. So, I mean, like, we need to make our own little Ted lasso show about you in this hockey league and. And just, like, how you have lifted it up and just making headways as a woman in.
Wow. Wow. What an interesting story. I'm so glad you shared that.
[00:05:37] Speaker C: And it's funny, too, because I had no idea what I was walking into. Not just the sport, but I didn't walk in here ten years ago and kick down the door and light my brawn fire and whizz it around and be like, woman, hear me roar. I didn't even know, like, I had no eyes on this. It took me about two or three years before when I was in the board of governors. So. And just to back up a board of governors is like a board of directors, but sports were called governors. And I'm like, oh, my God. It's just all these white men everywhere. And then there's Tony. And I was like, I want to. I got some work to do here. And so began my quest.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Wow. Wow. Okay, now, where did drinking come into all of this? Like, you grew up in Michigan. You're born and raised in Kalamazoo.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I never left, which is, like.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: The best name for a city ever.
[00:06:31] Speaker C: Isn't it great? Yeah, it's in southwest Michigan. It is right smack dab in between Detroit and Chicago on 994. And so for people that have been up here, like, it is, you know, the stop through. And that's why wings event center kind of exists, because there were shows. We were built 1974, we're 50 years old this year. And, you know, the shows would come from Detroit, stop in Kalamazoo on, like, a weekday, and then go into Chicago. And so it's just this beautiful spot in southwest Michigan surrounded by water. It's awesome.
So I never learned.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, where did. So, yeah, take us through what your experience was with drinking, how it started, how you unraveled it all that. I love hearing people's stories.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: So my drinking story is actually, I don't know if it's unique. I doubt it. But, you know, you hear varying. You know, when it started, I'll tell you, the first time I drank, like, one of my first memories of drinking was I was a senior in high school, and I was at my friend's house. And right before we went to my friend's house, I, for whatever reason, I wanted a whopper junior. So we whipped through. You know, I'm 17, so, of course, Whopper Junior is probably what I lived on. And so I. We get a whopper junior, we go to their. Her house, and I'm sitting on her basement step. And all my friends in high school. So I graduated high school in 1996, and back then, a lot of my friends smoked Marlboro reds or they smoked cigarettes, and I just didn't like cigarettes. But I'm like, man, I felt kind of left out. So I'll get to the alcohol part here in a minute. But. So my one friend handed me a Zima. Do you remember Zima's?
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:04] Speaker C: Hands me a zima. So I take a drink of the zima, and then I'm like, oh, I want a cigarette. Cause I really wanted to be like all my friends in smoke. And I took a drag off this marble red. And then up came the Whopper junior. That was one of my first, like, like, right on the floor between my feet. I mean, talk about an indicator, like, hello, your body's rejecting all these things, right? And. And then. So I drank once in high school, college. I didn't drink much, just, like, maybe a little bit socially, but nothing remarkable because I was working. I was going to school. Like, I was very, very goal oriented, career oriented. It wasn't until I turned 29 where things started to really kind of.
It moved from social to coping. And what happened that year was 2008, and I was going through a divorce. I was married at that point for about seven years. I married my college sweetheart. We had two kids at the time, four and one. And I just wasn't happy in.
He wanted to have more children. I didn't. I just. I was very career focused. He wanted someone that wanted to stay at home. It's the core values. It goes back to core values. They just didn't match. And we were, at the time, I wasn't wise enough to, like, have that, you know, forethought. And so we ended up splitting up in 2008, and that's when my drinking went over into problem drinking. Now, that was, what, 18 years ago or however many years ago it's been. No, Chloe, 17. So 15 years ago. I see it clearly now. It took me until I was about 41 ish before I figured that out, because for me, it was really important. But then the drinking went. I had the kids one week on, one week off. And so it was work hard, play hard, and it was layered all during the time where I was doing endurance sports. So in that culture of, like, Ironman races, work hard, play hard. So I would do these really hard triathlons long distances, and it's like, well, I've earned it. You know, I've earned the drink or I've earned the binge or I've earned that. And, yeah, it just, from bottles to boxes to blackouts, I mean, it was, it was really, I had a lot of cognitive dissonance. So really, my mid eight years ago, I. I was like, I think I have a problem.
And I went to AA for 15 months. And I liked if. I mean, you put me in a room of people, I'm going to make the best of it, you know, like, I'm going to make friends, and then, of course, I'm going to run something because that's what I do. I'm a natural born leader. I'm going to lead meetings and chair things and be on the board, and I did all the things. But around one year, I started to have those thoughts, like, man, this wasn't that hard to stop drinking. Surely I can moderate.
And I had those thoughts for about three months. And then at 15 months sober, I went back out. And in that methodology, it's like all or nothing, right? So I went back out for three years, and, man, was I sick and tired of being sick and tired. And in October 2020, I was like, I just. So hockey at that point, normally in October, we're launching, like, today, we're having a preseason game, and we play for the next six, seven months. And so. But that year in Michigan, we couldn't gather indoors, so we did not play hockey. So I took that time. I said, okay, I can focus on me. I was still working, but from home. I didn't have to travel. I didn't have to do all this stuff. So I'm like, I'm going to take a 30 day break from alcohol. But I wanted to find a more modern methodology. And that's what I literally typed into the Google search bar.
And this naked mind came up and I thought, well, let me try it. And now, this is a gross oversimplification, but tomorrow I will be four years alcohol free. And that's where it started.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I'm so we got. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations on four years. What good timing for this interview. Wow.
[00:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah, it, it's been, it's hard. Like, you know, like I mentioned, I did an Ironman. I've done two Ironman triathlons. And those are hard. Those are hard. Quitting drinking hard, but so worth it just taking this one thing out. And I absolutely, I can't imagine going back. And I loved it so much. And you read it in my intro. I got certified as a senior coach. With this naked mind. I launch a coaching business. It's been very successful. So I do both my jobs, and I just. I love it. You know, I've met the coolest people, you included. I just. I love this world. I love that there are those of us that are forward thinking and just badasses, and we're like, we're gonna. We're gonna take the shame and stigma and stereotype out of this.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah. What. What do you think was different? Like, what stood out to you? Cause you were successful with AA, so what were. Can you just kind of highlight the differences between using that method versus this naked mind? And, you know, what was different? What was helpful? Because I'm sure there were also things that were helpful in AA also. But, yeah, you have a unique perspective that you've done the AA route and you've also done the modern. What did you say you put in your. Your Google search?
[00:13:27] Speaker C: What did I put in there? I typed it. I gotta look at my TED talk because I'm saying this in two weeks when I give this TED talk. I typed in other methodologies to stop drinking besides AA.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Love it. Yeah. Cause that's what people are looking for. Yeah. So can you share about, like, kind of compare and contrast the differences for you?
[00:13:47] Speaker C: So the thing that I loved about AA, and this is one of my leadership pillars, is to innovate. I love, to the community part of AA, like, the people. And I'm still friends with these people to this day. I don't go to meetings or anything, but on social media, we're still friends. We still support each other. So the people, it made me feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm not the only one in the world with this problem. Cause I felt like that. So that part I loved. And it's very similar to this naked mind. There's just community.
Step one, admitting you are powerless over alcohol.
That's where. I mean, I couldn't get past step one. I am someone that believes in empowerment and in choices, and I believe that I have the ability to change, and I'm not hopeless in any part of my life.
And so I wanted to.
I wanted to have that control. Right? I want. I wanted to take my power back.
So that step one in AA just didn't work for me because I'm like, no, that's bullshit.
I believe that I am powered. Here's the other thing that's really different for me, is the language.
So alcoholic and alcoholism is not recognized by the CDC. The correct terminology is alcohol use disorder, which I know you know, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners know, but these two words that really changed everything for me were alcohol free, because it became a choice. I choose this. It didn't choose me. I chose it just like. And I liken this to being a vegetarian. Right now, I'm a pescatarian. I kind of go back and forth between vegetarian and pescetarian, but I didn't stop eating red meat or poultry because I was, you know, addicted. I wasn't a meat aholic.
Right. So it was. It's a choice to be vegetarian or pescatarian or vegan. Sometimes I dabble in that. I liked the idea of not everything is black and white. There's a spectrum to this, and it's up to me how to go about it. And I'm a rebel, and I need to know that I can color outside the lines if I want.
So a lot more differences than similarities. The community piece is the biggest piece that I find similar. The other thing I will say is, what I like about what I didn't like about AA is the 10 zero year old framework. It is very man centric. And I would say I'm a feminist. I don't generally wear that label, but I'm all about equality, and equality is men and women. So I feel like we need to, like, it's not just like, you know, oh, here's some ladies that drank too much, because back then, it was like. It was really looked down upon, like, the husband did the over drinking. The wife should be like, you know, in the kitchen and all that bullshit. So I don't like that. The old, like, if you. I've read the big book cover to cover, and I'm like, what the. Like, I can't believe it's never been like someone hasn't stepped up and said, what? Why don't we modernize this? But they haven't. So.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, but I agree with you on the language is so important. And coming from a place of choosing the freedom, the empowerment, the, you know, taking responsibility and then finding the power from that makes such a huge difference and letting go of the shame part of it 100%.
[00:17:23] Speaker C: And that was really hard for me. I had to.
I had to. So I love loopholes.
Tony loves a good loophole. So if I don't close these in specific to alcohol, I will find a way. I'll crawl through a loophole. So one of my loopholes, I closed Washington. What I call macro manage, which is basically letting go of control. Again, it's about empowerment and autonomy. And so on day 80 of being alcohol free, I posted to social media. So this was at the very end of 2020, and I'm just like, I wrote this thing out, and I said to my husband, I said, josh, will you read this? Because I'm going to lift the kimono, but I'm going to do it in a way where I'm not.
I'm framing it. It's my words, but I'm going to talk about how I haven't drank in 80 days. And I was so scared of the judgment, you know, and putting myself out there, but I wanted so badly for people because I noted, and as you did, in 2020, people were drinking more and more and more. And I'm like, wait a minute. I'm sure there are people who aren't comfortable with the level of drinking they're doing because of how scary it was for all of us back then. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna go the opposite way. Shock or become a rebel. And so I just, I decided to put my story out there and let go of control. And it closed a loophole because the more I talked about it, put it out there, I wouldn't walk backwards on it. I likely wouldn't walk backwards on it and undo the promises to myself. But I also could help other people who felt the same way. Or maybe it stopped drinking I didn't know about. And there were lots of those that came out of the woodworks, too. It was great. It was scary, but it was just one way for me to know because I knew I didn't want to go back there. But this is not an easy journey, not a culture like ours where it's very alcohol pro alcohol.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: Well, I mean, you're a really public person in this community. You've grown up all your life, like, to put yourself out there. That was really brave. What was the response? What was that like?
[00:19:25] Speaker C: It was very supportive, but I knew that, like, so this is what I did. I hit publish. And then I'm like, my way of coping is working out. So I went. I walked down to the basement because back then, you know, nothing was open. And Josh came down about 45 minutes later. He's like, Tony, you should see your social media. And I'm. I go, is there anything negative? He goes, well, and he's such a realist. He goes, well, no, because who's going to say that to your face or your. And I said, yeah, you're right. So it was really supportive. And, you know, I've had people come up to me at hockey games and. And they'll say, what did one guy say to me?
[00:19:56] Speaker B: He.
[00:19:56] Speaker C: He said, it's nice to know that you're part of the. The AA group. And I said, well, actually. And I was going to correct them. I'm like, yep, you're right. Because. And I just went with it because it doesn't matter to me, like, whether you get sober through a. You get sober through this naked mind. You get sober just because you stop. You want to stop drinking, whatever. Like, yeah, yeah, it was, it was scary, but I'm so glad I did it. I think it's a silver bullet, quite frankly. When I'm doing coaching, I talk about it and I don't say hey to my clients, go post, like, you have to want to do it. So. But I do think it.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: You said you think it's a silver bullet. Is that what you said?
[00:20:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And closing the loophole. So is the loophole, like, moderation?
What, what do you think about that?
[00:20:42] Speaker C: Yes, for me it is, because I know to this day, if someone said, tony, do you want to have a glass of wine? I'd be like, well, no, because I'd rather have the bottle.
I just know that about me. What's the point having one glass? That's stupid.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Same.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: Like, why. Why open it? I'd have to record. It's just. No, because at my brain, I have rewired my reward center of my brain. There's only so many drink tickets we get in life, and once we cash them all in, we have reward that part or rewired that part of our brain. So. And that's what I did. But I've had to do that. I've had to understand that part, the science part, the brain part, all the. I needed to learn all that. And that's why I spend quite a bit of time reading and listening to podcasts and learning from experts, because I need to understand what alcohol is doing to me to continue that motivation to keep going.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Yeah.
And what do you think for people who are still, you know, they're kind of wanting to find the quote unquote magic pill of moderation? Like, I.
It's kind of interesting to me. Cause I'm trying to approach it like cigarettes, where I'm like, you know, what idea would be for you to drink not at all or less, but I'm not gonna, like, really teach moderation. Cause it's, let's drink less or not. At all. And I understand, like, it's a process to get there where you can get to that point of acceptance, where it's like, I'm done with drinking, and I'd rather have none than one. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just curious your thoughts as a coach and how you kind of approach that.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: The first thing I say is because people ask me, do I believe that moderation exists? I do. I do believe it, but I believe it. If you haven't gone past the line of demarcation. Well, how do you know what the line of demarcation is, Tony?
You don't. Cause you don't. I mean, you know it inside.
And the reason I believe in moderation is because I live with someone who could take or leave alcohol. He literally could take it or leave it. Josh doesn't care. And I remember when we first started dating, I was like, how does he do that?
And he looked at me and like, she doesn't have an off switch.
It's like, it's. It was a perfect marriage. It ended up being. But. But do I believe in moderation once that line of demarcation has been crossed? No, but that's for individual to decide.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think that is a really good point and a great way to put it. And I remember talking to a friend of mine who's a social worker. He works at inpatient rehab. But he talks about how everyone has a potential ceiling of addiction, where they reach their tipping point, if you will. Right. And we all have the potential to become addicted to alcohol. Anyone can, even Josh. We could put him in a room and keep giving him alcohol. He could become addicted. It's just once you reach that ceiling, you can't go back from there. It's your demarcation that you talked about.
Thank you for that distinction. Yeah, that's great. Well, what have these four years been like for you?
[00:24:10] Speaker C: You know, it's a great time to actually reflect on that, because one thing that has been interesting is this anniversary. I keep forgetting it's happening, and so I find that to be beautiful because this is just who I am now. Right. That identity has fully shifted. So I would say if I were to give you a 30,000 foot answer, my identity has completely shifted. I'm proud of myself. I am. What I perceived was a weakness. My greatest weakness, I'm now looking at as my. The thing I'm most proud of.
I am so much different. I mean. And I mean, I'm still Tony, you know, I still have an edge, and I'm still who I am, but I'm so much smarter and wiser, and I'm a. I'm just better in all areas of life, and that's what I wanted. I mean, I was doing this job when I quit drinking. I mean, I've. I've been here ten years. I quit drinking for. So it's not like I was, you know, not. I was high functioning. High functioning, you know? And so I. You know what it is, though? I have an inner peace. And that was the number one reason I stopped drinking, was for peace of mind, because I didn't have that before.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: And I believe that.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
I think that's so helpful for people to hear, because when people are starting out to change their drinking, it's just. It's like, I don't want to think about this anymore. Am I going to have to focus so hard on the not drinking? Am I gonna have to put so much effort into? This is exhausting. And like you said, like, you just kind of forget, like, oh, yeah, I'm marking my dates. You know, I'll be five years, January 1, and it's just, it. I. As I get further and further away from it, I'm like, oh, I don't think about it as much. I mean, we do what we do, so it's around all the time. Definitely tethered to it, but it's so different. I mean, there is so much freedom, and it's just automatic. It's your new identity. Like you said. Like, I just. I don't drink. I'm a non drinker. Yeah.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: I like to be really honest about it and not. But real that it's not like I woke up on October 12 of 2020 and was like, that's it. New identity. No, I was known as Tony party time. It was work, like, to get there with me and my beliefs and then all the people around me and not feel like something was wrong with me. So I liked, and I think that's why. Part of the reason my coaching business has been successful, because I am not blowing sunshine. I mean, I'm caring and I'm non judgmental, but I'm also like, listen, here's the reality. This shit ain't easy. And it's okay to use willpower. It's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay not to go to things. It's okay to leave things early. It's okay to change your relationships, your friendships. All that stuff will probably happen. It is not easy. So it's. It. You know, one of the things is that four and five years, it's like, oh, man, this is awesome. But to get there, it sometimes isn't easy. At least my journey was. I don't know if you felt that way, but there were moments where I'm like, this shit's hard.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I had so many attempts at quitting or taking 30 day breaks that I'm grateful for those. As frustrating as they were, they helped me, like, make it stick.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: Yes. And that's what I say to clients. And I had one yesterday was like, tony, when am I going to get this? And I'm like, when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired of, you'll get there. I have no doubt. Cause by time they get to a coach like me and you, they're ready. It's just, there's just a little bit left in the tank. There's one more lesson to be learned. There's one more data point, and, like, you'll get there, I have no doubt. But your expectations and, you know, our expectations yourself are often high. So it's like, okay, it's usually somewhere in the middle.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, what do you think are, like, the common things that make people most successful when they're quitting drinking?
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think the most. Okay, so a firm decision is one. I think smaller goals is two.
Right? Like, when I started, I put what I called it a Tony timeout because I needed to, like, chill out. Like, I didn't need to say forever. So I was like, tony's taking a timeout. And I love alliteration and rhymes. So I'm like, let's make it cute, and we're going to do 30 days.
And that's what I committed to. And I literally thought at the end of 30 days that I was going to go back and I'd be fixed in my mind, and I go back to moderate drinking. But then I was like, hmm. So I went October 12 and November 12, and then I did a 30 day alcohol experiment. Maybe I started that in the middle. And so I lengthened. I lengthened by, like, three weeks. And then I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do three more. And it really was around day 80, which is probably why I ended up, if I remember back to that thought sequence, I was like, I'm done. But if I don't put it out there, I know I'm going to try and find a loophole. And so I just kept lengthening, and I never to this day say forever because that makes me want to rebel and that, I mean, that's a long time because I'm going to live to 100 in my mind, so that's a long time, Deb, to not drink. So I'm just. I'm not drinking today.
So I kind of adopt that. And then I really would say, and this is the hardest part for people, is talking about it, not just and start with someone trusted, but start to share because you will be so surprised what other people will share back. It doesn't have to be about alcohol. It could be anything. But I think that's one of the.
One of the silver bullets. I think there are a few. And that's one of them.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We need a compassionate witness on our journey, whatever that looks like.
[00:30:13] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And if you find yourself, not, like, if you've told one person, like, Josh knew the whole time, obviously he lives with me, but if I. If you get stuck there, it's like, okay, why? Like, allowing yourself to, like, really answer these questions, like, why am I not? And just say, I'm ashamed. I'm scared of maybe I feel like I'm gonna lose my job. So I said, okay. And I was afraid of that. Well, if they fire me for not drinking, like, is that where I want to work anyways?
No. So I just. It. I had to adopt that and really be courageous and just. And what I found is the things I was afraid of were actually just these beautiful strengths and just to do it. If I feel like not doing something, then I go do it because I find there's something really good on the other side. Have you ever felt like, I don't feel like working out today, and then you go do it anyways? And I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I did that.
There's a lot of things I just don't feel like doing. And I'm like, no, you're going to go do this. And then I'm like, wow, I don't regret doing that at all.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Have you always been that way? Do you feel like. Feel like you have a lot of confidence and you have this rebel side of you, like something that's pushing you, that is special.
[00:31:34] Speaker C: So this is funny what others might tell you. And by others, I feel like, I mean, Josh should be here. Not that I'm codependent by any source of imagination, probably too independent, but he will tell you, and I agree with him. I've always had this chip on my shoulder, and that's what's driven me, and I don't know how I feel about that. At times I feel like it's a negative, so I feel like it's a weakness, but I. But it's given me what I. What. I don't know how, but I call it fuck you fuel. And that is what has motivated me a lot. So if someone tells me I can't do something, let's go. I'm going to climb that mountain.
So I think that's where that comes from. I. Yeah, I get asked about the confidence a lot, and I'm like, well, I hope it doesn't come off as cockiness. Cause if it does, tell me. But I just think I'm fueled by just not feeling good enough and wanting to prove myself. And this time in my life has allowed me to really dive into that and say, you are good enough. You don't have to prove anything. But I think part of it's just innate in me. I'm always looking to accomplish could, you know, hard things.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that fuck you fuel.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: I told you, I love alliteration. Oh. I mean, I love it. It's like, oh, this is a good fuel.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Well, I think we can all take some of that with us, too. Yeah, we could all use a little bit of that kind of fuel.
And I think it's interesting that you said it comes from not being enough and then it comes out the way that you express it. And I think you either see that kind of the rebel, the rebel Tony you talk about, or you see I'm more of like an accommodator, a people pleaser. Like, I'm going to make everybody comfortable around me because I don't feel enough as well. You know, it's just. It's interesting to see how the two feelings, and I think that's just such a core feeling that, like, to be valued, to know that you are worthy, that you deserve to be here, that you are enough. Like, that's such a core value, and it shows up in different ways around us.
[00:33:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. It's taken me a long time to. And I know where it's rooted. Like, there's, I talked about on one podcast, one of mine. I had two childhood best friends growing up, and one of them passed away when we were 23, and the other one got in a car accident at 16 and was in a vegetative coma from 16 to 29 when she died of pneumonia. Now, of the three of us, I was the black sheep because I was the rule breaker. I was, you know, and that's why they loved me, because I was, you know, rebel Tony but there was a lot stemmed in that at a young age where I was like, how, how. I wouldn't call it survivor's guilt because I don't think I was that mature at that time to understand that. But how did they lose their lives at such a young age and never had children, never married, never. And I was able to do that not once, twice, three times, you know, like. And so I think a lot of that is rooted in that life experience.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm sorry for your loss.
[00:34:51] Speaker C: That's.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: What were their names?
[00:34:54] Speaker C: Amy and Anna.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: Wow. Wow.
Well, now you have. Yeah. Amazing.
[00:35:02] Speaker C: Yeah. I have some archangels up there, and I really think there are times that I'm like, I don't know how I survive some of my drinking escapades. And I think it's because of those, too. Seriously.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. They're probably so proud of you.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: Well, I know we had kind of talked about, before doing the podcast, talking about you being, you know, you and I are the same age. I graduated in 95. Being in this sandwich stage of life, you have kids that some are in high school, college, and then you're caring for sick family members, parents. How are you managing this? Wow.
[00:35:43] Speaker C: Flawed.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Flawed.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: One way I'm. This is. It's tricky, you know, being at this stage of life and you never know. Like, my parents are, and they live here in Kalamazoo, so we're. And I have. I'm the eldest of two. My brother lives in South Carolina, but I'm here and my dad's 81 and my mom's 75. My dad is super, super healthy. My mom, however, has late stage Alzheimer's and hospice is now involved and in home, along with private nursing, kind of supplementing some of this. And so it. Hard isn't the right word. I don't think it's talked about enough, is what I'm, you know, because people say Alzheimer's is just terrible, and it is, but. And once my mom passes, I think I will be talking more openly about it. Like, what makes it so terrible, right. It's not just that she's not my mom anymore, but it's watching my dad take care of her. And what that really needs, you know, changing diapers, you know, it is.
And that's just one thing. It's not being able to leave the house. Right. And truly leave the house. It's not being able to pick this person up off the floor because they have fallen and. And how helpless you can really feel in that. And it's. This, for me, it's really hard to want to be. Be there and help. But also, I love what my. Not just career, but careers. Uh, you know, and. And that's the. Where I find a lot of value and passion and drive. But I also have two children in college and one that's a senior in high school. And while they're independent and living their lives, they need mom, too.
And never mind that I'm married on top of that, it's just there's so many spinning plates, and so I don't know how well I'm doing it, you know? I know I need to start with me. I'm just very like, okay, Tony, Tony time, right? So the morning is where I set the table for the day. And I, you know, I work out, I eat right. I, you know, I intermittent fast. Like, there's just certain things I'm passionate about. I read, I, you know, I meditate, and then my day can go whatever way it's going to go, as long as I get those few hours in the morning, which requires me to get up early, but then I'm okay. That's. That's how I handle it. And my dad and I have just really good at communicating and supporting one another and calling each other out when we need to, because we both need that. We're a lot alike, so that helps.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure. And was your mom, was she diagnosed when you were still drinking, or has this been recent?
[00:38:24] Speaker C: So she was a school teacher, then she retired about 14 years ago. My dad and I noticed, like, literally within days of her retirement. It was crazy. And I'm like, you noticing something with mommy's like, yeah, she did not get diagnosed. She refused to. So this is one of the messages that I will be spreading till the cows come home, whatever.
Get diagnosed. Like, I know that it's scary, but at least then you can start to do, like, some preventative pieces. There are medications that will slow it down. But my mom was just. And she was so combative about it. We used to get in giant fights about it. And because I was like, you are being selfish.
Because if we don't get this diagnosed, the people that are going to be affected are the two sitting right here. And she's like, I don't care. And I'm like, cool. So that was hard. That was really, really hard. So it's like. And that's one of the things I like to talk about, like, when someone doesn't want to get diagnosed. So fast forward. She got diagnosed. I had been nine months sober, nine months alcohol free and my dad called.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: We.
[00:39:29] Speaker C: She had finally gotten down. Like, the. It had progressed enough where she didn't fight it anymore because, you know, things were just deteriorating. My first thought wasn't alcohol, though. My first thought was, boy, I'd like some skittles, which was a huge win, because for me, I remember that moment. I'm like, oh, my God, I didn't think that I wanted to drink. Like, that was a big moment for me, and I was sad, but it wasn't a surprise.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. There's a lot of fear there, and a lot of people, I've heard some stories from older people who have been drinking that are fearful, like, oh, gosh, I have dementia, or is something going on? Is it the drinking? Is it some underlying disorder that I have?
What do I do? I'm scared to get diagnosed. What do I do? Yeah, it is fearful, that's for sure.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And true to my hit it head on nature, I was like, I mean, anything for my brain health at this point. So I learn a lot about it. Well, the beautiful thing is, it ties in wonderfully to the coaching I do because. And my mom's dementia is not alcohol induced. I would call her a take it or leave it drinker as well. But it. I do whatever. And so it's just another reason to not go back to drinking because it's certainly not doing your brain any benefits. I mean, this is the cpu. The brain is a cpu of everything, so you want to keep that healthy. So I went and, you know, did the 23 andme to figure out the. If I, you know, if I. The apoe four gene, and I just am like, if I'm going to have any, I need to know. So there's four genes. I have one of them, I'm considered high risk. One out of four. It's not bad. Doesn't. I mean, it's not, like, a true diagnosis, but at least I have an idea of what genetics I have. So everything else I'm preventing through diet, through exercise, through what I put in or what I don't put into my body and brain.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Because it looks like with your business, you help people achieve freedom from all substances.
Uh, like, you're not. Do you. Are you a coffee drinker? I can't even remember if that stood out.
[00:41:41] Speaker C: I used to. So the first two years, I quit drinking, I quit caffeine, too. But I have been drinking caffeine. Yes. So, yes, I drink coffee now. So I was caffeine free for two years, and then two years ago, I started to kind of go back and forth. Now I'm full, full octane. So I can. This is how I measure things. Can I. If you said to me, Tony, you can no longer drink coffee, I'd be like, okay. Like, I wouldn't care.
And that's how I determine if I need to, like, chill out on something.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, with your background in, you know, you're getting even more passionate about prevention and helping people reach their fitness and nutrition goals. What's some of your, like, top advice for someone listening? And maybe they're, they're feeling a little scared about their health, their drinking, their future. What, what's some, like, good go to tips you have?
[00:42:37] Speaker C: So one of the things that I do, first off, it's you gotta look at how your day is structured. So I would look at that, right? Like, look at what are you already doing that's already fit into your day that you do already. They're called Linchpin habits for me, like, exercise is linchpin habit. So the things that I wanted to get better at, I would build around that habit I'm already doing. And habit stack. That's from atomic habits, from James clear. So it's just like looking at what do I do well, already let me celebrate that.
Where do I want to get better and start to layer that in? And then I track it, because if you gamify something, it makes it fun. So I have, I downloaded this app. It's $2.50 a year. It's called habit tracker. And I just pop in there the habits that I want to give myself an attigirl for at night before I go to bed. And so I put in there, like, sleep seven to 8 hours, drink 100oz of water, no alcohol. What else do I have in there? I read 30 minutes, 10,000 steps a day. Here's some fun ones. No doritos, no soda, and no skittles.
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Now, it doesn't mean tear falling down my cheek.
[00:43:52] Speaker C: No, it doesn't mean that every day I'm not going for perfection, other than I don't want to drink alcohol. That that's my, there's two columns in my life.
What I'm willing to fuck with and what I'm not willing to fuck with. I don't fuck with alcohol. I can fuck with Doritos, but not every day. So that's my comfort food. So I just like to track these things, and then I look at them, and I have goals. Like, I want to exercise 80% of the year. So, for me, exercise doesn't have to be an hour long workout. It could be a 30 minutes walk, right? So I just gamified, and I make it fun, and I set goals, and. And, uh, sometimes I'm. And I can tell then I look at the emotional side of it, like, boy, I'm not having that. I don't feel the greatest. Not like I'm getting sick, but I'm like, oh, maybe I haven't. Maybe I've been eating Doritos too many days in a row or, you know, or whatever. My vitamins are on there, flossing's on there. I don't know. I just. Just things that don't. Aren't second nature to me, but I want them to be. So, yeah, there's just ways to track and make it fun.
[00:44:54] Speaker B: Well, I think I appreciate that is all, like, doable, and I love to revisit it because I, you know, you kind of forget. It's like, oh, yeah, I could be tracking this. Oh. You know, there are some basic things we could do, you know, removing alcohol, moving your body, drinking lots of water, you know, like, there's some pretty basic things we can do to take care of ourselves. It doesn't need to be. Nothing you said was dramatic, except for the Doritos and the pops.
[00:45:26] Speaker C: So I had to put it in there, deb. So I used to have no cool ranch Doritos, but I told you I love a good loophole. So I started to eat nacho cheese, and I was like, there you go with your loopholes, Tony. So I had to put no doritos because I will find a loophole. And then I was starting to eat swedish fish instead of skittles, so then I had to put no skittles or swedish fish.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. Aw.
Well, what are other ways you help, you know, people who are having trouble just getting started, they just feel stuck. Like, how. How do you help unstuck people?
[00:46:02] Speaker C: So, I'm a big, like, I read my age every year, and I've been talking about books. I listen to my age every year, which is 46 books this year, 46 podcasts, not my own, because that doesn't count. But I I'm all about going to the experts.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:46:17] Speaker C: So find that expert, or experts. There's a lot out there. And find what resonates with you, or find those pieces and parts that resonate with you. This is where my six leadership pillars come in, because I was asked one day, how did you turn the k wings around? And I'm like, I don't know, I just did it. Then I sat down and wrote on a post it note one day how I did do it, and six leadership pillars came up. And so number one is go to the experts. And that was Google for me in this space. But there are so many of us out there now, and we have different voices and different language and we. It's like a Rubik's cube. You can make it work for you, innovate, you know, and that's like, that. Make it, you know, make change to something established, make mistakes. That's my third leadership pillar. Right. Like, it's okay to make mistakes in the world of alcohol. It's data points. Right?
[00:47:03] Speaker B: I.
[00:47:04] Speaker C: But that's this naked mind methodology where it's just about learning. It's not like this all or nothing leadership pillar number four for me is ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Like, no is a complete sentence. You don't have to ask permission to change anything in your life. And adopting that mindset leadership pill when number five is macro managed. So it's like holding it loosely, not like suffocating these goals. Like, it's not going to be perfect. That's okay. And then six, and I think six is overlooked so often in everything in life. Have fun.
Have fun.
Like, we overcomplicate things as adults. We are serious all the time. Like, just have fun.
Find ways to live life. Yeah. So that's. That's how I get unstuck. And you can apply these leadership pillars to anything. Literally anything.
[00:47:52] Speaker B: Yeah, those are great. Will you just run through them real quick, just the names of them again?
[00:47:57] Speaker C: Go to the experts.
Innovate, make mistakes, ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Macro manage and have fun.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that the fun and leaning into that side of life, like the alcohol free life, dating, sobriety leaning, you know, like events that you go to, the people you hang out with, all that, like, really leaning into what you're gaining, not what you're giving up. When you give up drinking, so, so important.
[00:48:31] Speaker C: Yeah. You get so much more back, but you have. It's like you. I don't have to drink. I get to be alcohol free. Like, that's my attitude. Like, I get, like, why I spent so much time drinking, I don't know, but I got out of that part of my life when I was supposed to, and I believe that.
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And here you are now, just rocking it. I love it. Oh, good. Well, how can people find you so.
[00:48:59] Speaker C: I can be found? So the coaching mindfulnesselevated.com, i'm
[email protected]. i'm on Facebook and LinkedIn at Tony Lentini will.
And then on Instagram, I'm Tony will. I'm not hard to find. Kalamazoo, wings.com, too. Or kwings.com is the hockey team that I'm the GM for, so. And women in dot Dot Dot is a podcast that Deb was a guest on, and that episode is going to be airing this week, so. But it'll be, you know, it's on Apple, Spotify, YouTube channel, the whole bits.
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Love it. Love it. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for all you're doing. It's. I'm just loving connecting with you. The more and more we get to know each other, the more I want to know you. And I hope that you continue to do what you're doing and can't wait to see what your future looks like.
[00:49:50] Speaker C: Thank you. And thanks for having me on. I love your podcast. You have just the most fascinating guests on, so I hope the bar stays up there with what I said.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: You are great. And maybe that you will come to Boise and see our hockey league.
[00:50:07] Speaker C: I play the steelheads. They're there. I know. And you know I'll be sleeping on that futon back there.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: That's right. You're welcome. You know what I was also going to share with you is that hockey, I went to a still heads hockey game, was one of the first sober events I went to, and I was kind of nervous about it, and people were drinking and I could smell the alcohol, but I looked up and they had a huge ad for Heineken zero. I was like, that's awesome. Right? And it just so cool. Yeah. And I imagine, like, in your Kalamazoo stadium that you have similar things.
[00:50:48] Speaker C: Yes, we do. And because I. No matter where I go now, I advocate for it. Whatever. Wherever I'm at, whether it's a league wide thing or I sit on steering committees for, like, the National Sports Forum, I'm like, there are those of us who don't drink, and I'd love to make sure there's other options between. Besides soda and water. And they're like, absolutely. They just don't think of it because, you know, they're not in that world, and that's okay. So, yeah, I love that Heineken zero. They're very. They're in a lot of arenas, which is. That market is growing the Na segment, for sure.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. Okay, well, take care. Take care of you and your loved ones.
[00:51:28] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. Please share and review the show so you can help other people too. I want you to know I'm always here for you, so please reach out and talk to me on instagram at alcoholtippingpoint and check out my website, alcoholtippingpoint.com, for free resources and help. No matter where you are on your drinking journey, I want to encourage you to just keep keep practicing, keep going. I promise you are not alone and.
[00:51:56] Speaker B: You are worth it.
[00:51:58] Speaker A: Every day you practice not drinking is a day you can learn from. I hope you can use these tips we talked about for the rest of your week, and until then, talk to you next time.
