Navigating Hard Changes

last day . Welcome back to the alcohol tipping point podcast. I am your host, Debbie Masner. And I have a special episode today about change and why changes so freaking hard. I want to talk about why change is hard. And there's actually a process behind it. I want to share that with you and I want to give you some tips for making it easier. And I also want to just share a bit about my personal experience with change and. Share a part of a podcast recording. I did with my friends from work. . , so let's get started. As some of you may know, I recently left my job as a nurse. At St. Alphonsus just a local hospital that I've been at for the last seven and a half years. I've been working as a wellness nurse and preventative health. And I've been working with a bunch of kick-ass people, , was. Really really hard to leave. And. It also made sense to leave. So I just wanted to share about that and how that was so hard. And just kind of share about my nursing journey. When I started nursing back. Oh my gosh. 2004. It's. It's been almost 20 years. I've been a nurse. And I've been in healthcare even longer than that. I worked as a CNA. I worked as a, a tech, a cardiac tech I worked at as an ma and just different various aspects of healthcare. I started as an RN. At the VA hospital here in Boise, start in the med search department. And ironically, one of my roles was to take care of veterans who were detoxing from alcohol, from drinking. I think. Even back then. I knew that I was drinking too much. But I also was always comparing myself to other people. And so. I was on the other side of taking care of people, you know, I would go through and ask them withdrawal symptoms. Meanwhile, I would be like shaky and hung over a shit. But I would also tell myself, but I'm not in the hospital. Like I'm okay. This is okay. , so, so that was where I started at the, as an RN at the VA. And then I took some time off to have kids. And I took a good nine years off when my kids were young. I, I went back to nursing and I found my passion. And like my dream job, doing wellness nursing. And I found a great group of people to work with. I mean, obviously they're still going to be my friends and you'll hear , three of us having a conversation later in this episode. And so I've loved wellness nursing because I love doing preventative healthcare. I really think that that is where it's at. You know, we need to get and help people before. Their disease progresses, pre hypertension. Pre-diabetes, you know, we want to help you before. You end up with a heart attack or a stroke. We want to help you take care of your health and yourself and your full self. , before you progressed to needing hospitalization or further care, , we, we can reverse diseases. We can reverse the progression of, of your heart issues of diabetes, risk of all these different things. So. That is the role I've been in doing wellness nursing and doing health coaching with that role as well. And so what prompted this change in me leaving? , well, number one was transitioning into a call tipping point. And. Developing this podcast, developing programs, developing my, my monthly alcohol a day where I help. People take a break from drinking, whether that break it's for a month or for forever, , I just want to get people. Away to change their drinking. Without having to hit rock bottom without having to go to rehab without having to go to the hospital to get detoxed, I know that there is a better way to change our drinking. And so that way can be through science-based tools that can be through compassion that can be through practicing, not drinking. And not having to be perfect at it. You know, I can't imagine if as a nurse. I had a diabetes patient and they didn't take their meds every day. Or followed the diet like they were supposed to or whatever that I would shame them for not being perfect because it takes a lot of practice. And it takes a lot of education and learning and there, there just is no such thing as perfection, right. And so I wanted to do the same kind of preventative work with drinking as we were doing with diabetes management and hypertension and cardiac issues. And so that's why I started I'll call it tipping point. I also wanted to help people. I have an alternative way of addressing their drinking. I have another way to practice, not drinking without perfection. And. I mean, it took me so long to get sober. To give up drinking, you know, just to get to a point where I'm like free from alcohol free from thinking about drinking. I knew that when I got to the other side, I was going to help people. And so that's what I'm doing. That's why I started alcohol tipping point. What became really hard was this in between part of, of working as an RN and doing an ATP? Do we both like it, it just became unmanageable. And then naturally. , work healthcare, you know, healthcare has changed so much. He even before COVID, but even after what. What we're seeing right now in healthcare is that there are a lot of budget cuts. You know, it's being run like a business. It is a business. And what they're letting go of first are things like wellness and preventative care. Because that's not always bringing in the big money. And so our department has just been under fire. Four. , Budget cuts basically. So my hours got reduced. We let go of a dietician. We let go of a counselor. Just naturally it was just kinda. , being. Whether in a way let's put it that way. Not growing. And I also got to the point where I was like, well, I can't really grow with this department if I'm also growing ATP. And so I just made the difficult decision of deciding. To leave my job as an RN. And I didn't anticipate how fricking hard that would be. Aye. At th that last week of work, which my last day was the 16th. Of March. I cried the whole week. I cried that whole last day. I'd probably start crying right now. And it was just so hard for me to leave even though. I decided to, even though I wanted to. And so I've just been examining, like, why is change? So freaking hard, right? Even if it's a good change, it's hard, but especially if it's, it's what we see as an not so good change. Just change in general is hard. And going from where you are now to where you want to be. Going from one identity to another. That can be really difficult and scary. And you know, we, I did it with drinking and maybe you're going through that with your drinking right now, where you are maybe wanting to make changes in your drinking. You're not where you want to be. Right. Or maybe you had considered yourself a lush. Like I did. You know, heavy drinker. That was your identity. And now. You're giving up that identity and you're going to another one, which is. An alcohol-free bad-ass right. Even though it's a good thing. But to get to the other side of where you want to be. If I crossing an obstacle course. It is like crossing a river of misery because our brain is just so used to what is known, what is certain. What is comfortable. And so anytime we change that, it, it, it triggers our amygdala part of the brain and it triggers. Fear. And anxiety. And it doesn't matter if you're going somewhere amazing across that obstacle course or the river misery. It's still scary to your brain and that's totally, totally normal. I mean, it's your brains. Job to keep you safe. And your brain loves certainty. We've evolved that way. Right? We see change as a threat. And we stress out about it. And, and that's okay. That's just part of our brain being a brain brains, going to brain. That's what they say. And so it's how do we get over this obstacle course? How do we get through this river of misery easier? Right. I think one way is just to recognize that's normal. And recognize like this has been studied again and again, we've studied the suck. We've scienced it out. Right. We've found we can run it through models, , like stages of grief, like the, , Transtheoretical model of change. We can run. This, this a journey. This obstacle course is river of misery. We can run through it. And, and that kind of helps us see it like a little map, you know? I was just talking about this. The other day and I'm like, it's like, you're a Dora the fuck and explore right. Going from one identity to another. Ew. Ew. Have a map. I hope you have a map, right? Hope you have a little friend. , and with drinking, that's the same thing, right? We're going from day one to a hundred or whatever that looks like we're going through the obstacle course that Claire Pooley talks about. And so we recognize that we recognize that sometimes you have to go through something hard to get to something good. And so I like to share the coupla Ross grief cycle, because I think that there is a sense of loss whenever we're changing something. So whether we're leaving our job, there's definitely a sense of loss there. There's a sense of loss when we're giving up drinking, there can be a real sense of loss there, and that's a real grieving process because. Your relationship with alcohol, what's our relationship. And when you're breaking up, you go through all those stages. Right. And I'll just go through them with you because I just think they, they make sense. You know, at first there's denial. And, and that that's where you don't even realize you have a problem with drinking. You know, that's that whole ignorance is bliss, right? You're in denial. You're avoiding it. You don't even want to think about it. , you're just in that denial phase. And then comes perhaps some bargaining. Where you are struggling to find meaning, right. Where you are moderating for me, bargaining was moderating. I was like, wow. If I only drink on the weekend, then I'm okay. Right. Maybe if I only have two drinks a night or whatever that looked like, like that was bargaining. I just wanted to get. , I just didn't want to let go. I really don't want to let go. And then you may feel some anger and, and sometimes that anger is at yourself. Maybe it's at big alcohol. I know that I really was angry. , big alcohol. I was angry. Like we'd been lied to, we'd been marketed to, you know, Which is an okay stage to be in. For me, I'd like rather be in an anger stage than like a depression stage, which is another one of the stages. The depression is just where, where you're sad about it. You might feel overwhelmed. You might feel helpless. , And again, it's just grieving that. That's just that sense of loss. And finally, you know, and, and those stages kind of ebb and flow. Right. But finally, we get to acceptance. And acceptance is just recognizing that. This is the path for us that this is right for us. You know, for me, acceptance was accepting that I had a problem with drinking. Right. I could be angry at big alcohol. And all the health affects of alcohol and all of that. But also needed to accept. That it was my responsibility and my problem, and I needed to do something about it. And so that is acceptance and that is. For me. A very peaceful place to get to. , they actually added on an additional stage two. The coupla Ross grief cycle. And that is meaning. So finding, meaning out of what you went through, like you, you went through this big journey you got here and now what are you going to do with it? Maybe you're helping other people. Maybe you're helping your family, maybe, you know, maybe you can find some meaning to what you went through. Cause sometimes it's hell what we go through when we're changing our drinking, it can be total. Hell it can be a total shit show. Right. But what can we learn from it? How can we grow from it? I like the same, that things don't happen to you. They happen for you. And I've said it before. Like I, I had to go through all those day ones. I had to go through. I read all those books, go through all those. , dry months go through. You know, those experiments, just all of that. I had to go through all of that to get to where I am today, where I can help other people, which is so meaningful for me. So that's how we can kind of run our stages of change. We can run it through the grief cycle. And another model that they use in science or psychology is the transtheoretical model of change. And what we see there is the pre-contemplation stage. So again, that's kind of the denial stage, right? Where, where we're not even thinking about it, right. We don't even want to change. We're fine. Right? We are. Okay. We are in denial. But then you get into this contemplation stage. And that's where you're thinking about it. Maybe you're doing all the reading. You're listening to all the podcasts. You're, you're just, your brain is spinning. Right. And we can kind of get stuck there. Where we're just thinking about it. And then maybe we're even getting into the preparation stage and that's where we're like, okay, well starting the first of the month, starting next week, starting tomorrow, you know, we're constantly preparing. And what happens in the, in these stages. Is we end up with paralysis analysis, right? Where we are just spinning our wheels and we're not really doing anything. So that's why it's so helpful to like, take these breaks, to do something to, you know, you can sign up for one of my alcoholic days. That's the action phase of things. That's where you're actually doing something. And that's where I talk about like, okay, now we're going to practice, not drinking. We know a lot of things. We have a lot of tools. We're going to put that into action. What does that look like today? What are you drinking instead tonight? You know, what else are you going to do? What else do you need besides a drink? You know, are, are you feeding yourself? Are you taking breaks throughout the day? Are you exercising, moving your body? Are you doing some kind of mindfulness? Like that's the action stage. That's where we do the work. And then you get to the maintenance stage in this transtheoretical model of change. Maintenance is just where you're there. Right? You're like an alcohol free bad-ass maintaining. I'm great. , And that's just one model to run it through. And I'm, like I said, like, do you need these models? Not really, but it does help to make sense of what you're going through and just be in like, oh, I can see, I know where I'm at. I'm I'm definitely in that contemplated stage. I'm just thinking about it. Right. I'm thinking about changing haven't yet done it. And, and that's okay. I think we need to go through all of the, those stages to really get to the other side. It's just making sure that you take action. Eventually just taking that first step, you know, doing, just doing that first week off of drinking or whatever it looks like for you, just really putting into action. What you've been learning about. And so that's what we talk about when we're going through change and how it can be so hard. And how it's okay. And it's totally normal for you. There, there are some ways to make it easier though. One is just to get clear on what you want. So do you want to take a break? Do you want to do 30 days? How about that? Are you done forever now? I never tell people to be done forever. I think I'm a big fan of like small, actionable goals. So maybe it's 10 days, maybe it's 30 days. Like. Get clear on what it is and make a decision. Right. I've decided not to drink for April or whatever that looks like. Be really clear about that. And, , the other end of that is just know it's okay to fail. Failure is learning. That's okay. I think, I think we get stuck because we want to be perfect. And we think, oh, I can't do. I can't do this month because I have a wedding to go to, or there's a kids. Birthday party or, , I have stressful week at work or whatever it is. Don't let that stop you. From practicing, not drinking. No. That it's okay to fail and learn from it. That is all part of the process. That is how we grow. You know it, I like people to think of it like a scientific experiment. And if you aren't failing, you're not learning. You know, with. We we test our hypothesis and they're either proven or not. And a scientist learns from it and tries to get. Learns from it and tries again. And that's what we do when we're practicing. Another thing you can do to make it easier as develop a growth mindset. I find myself constantly saying like, everything is figureoutable. I can figure out anything. Okay. Let's focus on the solution. What can we do next? And, and that's just that's to help you get out of being stuck. Right. I think sometimes we just feel so stuck and we're focused on like, well, why can't I get it? Why do I keep going back to drinking? Why is this so hard? What is wrong with me? And when you do that, you're really focusing on the problem and it's not moving you forward. It's keeping you in that, like thinking phase. And you're just spinning. You're feeling sad. You're feeling depressed. You're feeling angry. You're feeling frustrated. So instead, just switch that, switch your questions to. How can I make this easier? What can I do today? How I'm in a practice, not drinking today. What else am I going to do? You know, what other tools do I need? Everything is figureoutable. Focus on the solution. And then you can start small. Like I said, start with the small group. Or start with a small goal. Start with. A weekend start with 10 days, start with 30, you know, just start small. You don't have to quit forever. , and I heard Annie grace talk about, like, how would you know you succeeded if your goal was not drinking forever. Right? You wouldn't know till you were debt. So just remember to start small focus on the day-to-day. Focus on smaller daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals. And then finally connect with others is so helpful to talk to others about what you're going through. They understand they get it, they bend through it. Maybe they have advice for you. I mean, it's just keeping it real, right. We. I have kept these struggles to ourselves. We want to be perfect. We want to be fine. I hope that, that funny cartoon where there's like this dog drinking coffee, but the world's on fire around him and he's like, I'm fine. I'm fine. Everything's fine. Well, maybe you're not fine. Get honest with yourself. And connect with others and you can do that in a variety of ways. You can do it online. You can do it in groups. You can join the alcohol a day. It is so helpful to connect with others. I cannot tell you how much that has helped people change. Especially I've seen it in my groups for sure. So that is just kind of how we are going through stages of change, some ways to make it easier. The thing is you just have to go through it. You can't go around it. Right. I. Chain. I told you guys, I was crying all week, feeling all the feels about leaving my job. Feeling a sense of loss, feeling sad, just everything. But I, couldn't not Mao. I wasn't going to tap out. Like I just felt it all. And now I am on the other side of it had my last day, had some time away to think about it. And I'm feeling better. Feeling better. And I know that. If I drank at it, if I had drank at it, it wouldn't have helped anything. It might've prolonged the pain. And so. Just realizing like no feeling is final. It joy, sorrow, happiness sadness. No feeling last, no feeling is final. And for me, that's a comforting thought, like, okay. I can get through this. I can get through anything. You've gone through a hundred percent of all your bad days. You can get through it again. And on that other side of the river of misery, Dora Dora is going to leave you lead you to just a great. Place a beautiful place. So, give it a chance to start walking right on this journey. Just start walking. So I really wanted to just talk about change today. Talk about the changes I'm going through leaving my job. , and I also wanted to share this conversation I had with my coworkers. Back at St. Al's wellness department. Just because I think that we processed a lot together and I think you might find it helpful to listen to. As we talk about. Change change in our department and about me leaving and what that looks like. And, and you can hear me, you know, I was a hot mess. Back then. , And I'm better now. And I just am so comforted by that, just knowing that. I'm not stuck and you're not stuck either. You are definitely not stuck and you can do hard things. So I'm going to play that for you. And I just want to remind you if you want some help changing your drinking. If you are Dora the Explorer and you need a map and some people to help you along the way, come join the next alcoholic day. It is just a great. 30 day break from drinking. You're going to get a lot of tools. You're going to get a workbook. You're going to get daily emails. You're going to get weekly group coaching. You're gonna get a private group, private small group guys. We've had like under 30 people and every alcoholic day, it's really small. Which it just creates these wonderful connections that we were talking about. And. You can access me anytime you can email me, you can chat me up. You'll see me in the group meetings. And I just really want to be there to help you change your drinking, whatever that looks like. I want to help you practice, not drinking. So. Come join an alcohol a day. You can find it at alcohol tippingpoint.com/alcohol a day. I'd love to see you inside. And I just love to hear about your own journey and what changes you've been through. And maybe you have tips that you can share too. So always feel free to reach out to me. You can always email me at Deb, , alcohol tipping point.com. Here is that recording? I did with my friends and former coworkers, , St. Nile's wellness department. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Deb: Well, hello ladies. Hello. , we are recording this on my last day. Don't, oh, we should have brought tissues. There's paper towels, there might be some anyway, I just wanted to record something on my last day. Well, I've just been reflecting a lot about like my time here, what brought me here, and then now leaving and just like the journey of change and so I just thought it fitting just to have conversation with you two. Kandy and Carrie, who are just really become my best friends here and so, Aww. really hard to leave. Candi: It is hard. It's hard because you really bond like you're, you really are at work. For a lot of time in your life, like this is our work family, . You get, we're really friends. Deb: Yeah. We're really friends. So I, I just wanted to share like, maybe a little bit about my nursing journey and. How I came, you know, before I got this job, I had been just at home. Basically. I'd been a stay at home for mom for nine years, and honestly, that's really when my drinking amped up, right? And I just felt really lost. And so I wanted to find a place. Where I could be me again. Mm-hmm. . I, I do remember getting the job and thinking, well, this will help me get sober. Oh. I mean, even way back then, you know, wow. That was seven and a half years ago. And so I think part of me is scared to leave because I feel like I'm gonna be alone again. I mean, I know I don't want to go back to drinking or anything, but Right. I did have that period of just feeling so alone getting this Job and like meeting you guys and becoming good friends and I mean, honestly, the job didn't get me sober. , as you know, we had Yeah, quite a few wild times. Yeah. You read the job. We had a few work. To Baker City where we just went wild after we were snowed in this little sleepy town in Oregon. Yep. And I, I didn't get sober until I was a good five years into the job, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. four and a half, five years. So it, I just feel like this has been a big part of my change and evolution just as a person too, that I have changed a lot personally and then professionally, I, I think what is so hard, and I was talking to Carrie about this, who's our other nurse, is feel like I'm leaving nursing. And I, and that's kind of like been part of my identity and so, . It just becomes really hard to change that and leave that behind too. But you'll always be that nurse . Carrie: You'll always be a nurse. You always have that title no matter what you're Deb: doing. Yeah, I've, I mean, you think I can still call myself a nurse? Always. Of course, . Carrie: You can always, as long as you carry that license, you're Candi: good. Right? Well, and the thing is, is, I mean, there's so many different aspects to nursing, and what I think is so great is that, , you have been able to utilize your knowledge as an RN in your coaching? Yeah. With other people that are dealing with, you know, their alcohol use and exploration of stopping and I think that that's great. Plus they see a person that. is a professional and has that experience. Yep. And how they also struggled in this area and you know, have worked so hard to get to where you are. So, I mean, you're moving into the education realm. Yes. out of the practice. You're not, you know, put in catheters maybe anymore . I don't think you're gonna miss that. I hope you didn't do that here. Yes Carrie: you did. . I didn't sign up for that, that's for sure. , if you found catheter, you switch and putting those in while we were here, that was like a side job. I don't know. Candi: Right, right. But then people are gonna be able to come to you and you're gonna have this wealth of knowledge and you can really tie in like that whole physical aspect. Of how alcohol use affects your body like so Well, yeah. I mean, you've seen it and the people that we've even worked with, they might have come in for blood pressure or come in for, you know, diabetes or something like that. But that's an aspect of health and you have, you've been able to tie in that connection between use and your body's physiological responses. So that's, you're still going to use it. Yeah. You're star still nurse Debbie. Stubby, Deb: stubby, stubby nurse. Stubby. Yeah, I, I, I agree. , and you just Carrie: have to reflect back of how much you've grown since this day, one to now, like going through that period of drinking and then all of a sudden it's like, I might stop this month. And then it was like, I might stop for two months, and then it was like, yeah, I'm gonna stop for good. Yeah. And then I mean, it, you just grew as a person and as a health coach and. relatable to under, you know, with people and they could understand, you know, your perspective and their perspective and kind of mash and, and get, do what you do. You're great at it. Deb: I know. Yeah. I was gonna ask like if you noticed Candi: a change, , I'm gonna tell, I've, I've brought this story up to Debbie and it just lives rent free in my mind. But I was at my. Desk and my office is at the end of our hall, so I always get people stopping by, especially when Debbie gets her coffee or something in the break room right next to me. And she walked in and she just looked at me, you know, she just says hi and stuff and she's like, have you ever just wanted to go on a bender? You know, just like get a hotel room and just black out. And I think my eye, like I was trying not to look. Like have the shock that I was feeling come out on my face, but I was just like, no, Like, is Deb: that a thing? Well, I, it's, it's it, and I never did. Just fyi. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Carrie: Was that when she was drinking? Yes, though. She, Candi: this was, this was at that time kind of that I think, kind of close to the tail end of it, but. and I don't know, was that, do you remember saying that and do you feel like that was almost like a cry for help or like a, you know, if you think back and reflect, do you remember saying it? I do, cuz I think I Deb: said it to Val . Candi: Well, we shared an office too at the time, and Val Deb: said, no . But I, well what I think I really was trying to communicate and that I can see now is like, , I'm so fucking stressed. Yes. I want to tap out. Yeah. And for me, tapping out was drinking. Yes. Yeah. And, and it was when I was really, like you said Carrie, I would start to do those breaks. Like, oh guys, I'm doing a 30 day dry challenge or whatever. That transition period between, I mean, honestly, I've known, I've had a drinking problem for years. Years. But when I was really actively changing it, like starting in 2018, 2019 and, and starting to do those dry months and just starting a new way of looking at my drinking and, and changing how I was unwinding the habit it was a big transition. between letting go of one identity, like as a lush, as a drinker, and moving into another identity as a sober person, an alcohol-free badass, you know? Right. And that's why I also wanted to do this podcast today, because I just feel like this is another transition for me. And it's that middle part that is so shitty. It's so hard because I'm leaving behind. This work environment, my job here at St. Now's and you guys, and now I'm transitioning into this other role as an entrepreneur or whatever. Yeah. With atp and I just feel like I'm going through the grieving process and I've been in this sadness stage, like filling this overwhelming sense of loss, even though. I know what I'm going to is right for me, and it is time to leave, but I'm sad about it too. And I was just recognizing like that's what I went through when I was changing my drinking too. Like I was sad about it. I would get angry about it. I would have all the feelings about it till I got to the other side. Yeah. And so, and it could be any change in your life. , it takes a while to get over that river misery or whatever to get to the other side. And so that's just what I've been processing. Candi: Yeah, and I mean, I think that's totally understandable. It's that identity thing. I think that I, I think even just as. I'll say women because I am one. But I hope so, women in general, like we go through lots of different identities. Mm-hmm. , you know, we're like, Single woman where married wife, we're mothers, we're mothers at work, mothers that stay at home like, and then you transition with that from little babies and there's just so much transition in life and I think that sometimes we don't give ourselves the grace to kind of have that like sadness or grieving process of the change. And it's okay to be. Sad about it, and to have feelings and have to process through it when we make a change and, and our, and how we identify ourselves, you know, how we identify ourselves. So you've done it before and you have more tools now than ever to, you know, help you. You're building on the mastery. You've done it before. It was hard. You transitioned to come back to work. , then you transitioned from your alcohol use, which was so cool to see. Yes. Like, it honestly was really cool to see. And I think we've, we've all been, we've seen you through it all. Yes. And we've loved and supported you through it all and will continue to love and support you through the next Debbie. The next, the next phase. Chapter. Chapter, the next chapter. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Deb: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. But we have, Carrie: we, we have seen you transition through, through all of it. Right. From the wild, crazy , Deb: smokey, cut her off, , Carrie: come to work clicking like crap. oh my god. Bags under your eyes. Hangovers. Deb: Hangovers, yeah. And just feeling. Carrie: Shitty. And then you, you know, transitioned and you became that happy, you know, you had that, that brightness Yes. That you brought and you did before, but she, Candi: yeah, Debbie's always been fun. Yes, that's, but it, but Carrie: it was more mid-afternoon after the hangover was gone. You had to give her that time in the morning, , . But after that time in the morning, you know, afternoon, she was doing her dances and, , but. You can just tell by looking at you, , how happy you were and how much you have changed. And you were just in your new spot. Yeah, yeah. Owning it. Owning it, owning it. Well, and then to take it to another level to share it, like to share it with others and , have the courage to start your own, business and to help others. And it was something that you told me was that your heart just wasn't in. at St. Alphonsus anymore and that your heart was with attp. And so that really brought it home to where if you're not, if you're not fulfilled and you're not happy, then it's time for a change. Deb: Yeah. Well, thank you. What I was gonna say is, I think why it's so much now is cuz I don't numb out anymore and I'm just feeling everything. I don't have my fuck it but button anymore of drinking. Right, right. I did shoot some whipped cream the other night. Whipped cream shot straight in the mouth. The . Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's just raw dog in . Without. Having anything to buffer, numb out with, because Carrie: this is the first real big change since you're drinking and changing into a sober person. But this is the, the biggest change that you've had since then. Deb: I think so. I mean, there's been a constant, right? Just Jason changing jobs and kids and life, stuff like that. But personally Carrie: and like, I mean, yeah, Deb: I mean, it's gonna be a loss because. I love you guys so much. , Debbie. I can't look at her. I know. We love you too. We love you too. Carrie: I, I, I'm, I just can't believe I'm gonna come to work on Tuesday and you're not gonna be here. I know. That's, that's the reality. Like you are always here Deb: we were like two Carrie: peas in a pod. In fact, we needed a window between our offices instead of shouting at each other. Deb: Yeah. It's a big loss for us too. It's, it's a Candi: huge loss for us. Like, You are our elf on the shelf. You're our . Yeah. You make a smile. You bring up good energy. When we're in like , when we're in meetings, we might be able to shorten the meetings cuz there'll be less questions asked . But like you could always lighten it up. Like I would just turn over and you will be crying, laughing at something. I don't know what, but, and it brings a smile to all of us and like, so we, we will miss that comedic break, that kind of just breath of fresh air because, you know, things are serious now. Like everything is just like, kind of serious, especially in healthcare. And so you need that time to just smile and have fun sometimes. Deb: Part of why I do alcohol tipping point also is because, I wanna help people with their drinking problem before they hit rock bottom. Yes. Before they go to the er, before they get, because that's just how we treat mental health and physical health is we, we just, we don't treat it in these pre stages. Right. Right. I mean, which we are, that's what our department is about. Like treat pre, you know, pre-diabetes, pre-hypertension, all of that. And so I wanted to help fill the gap into, you know, treating pre rock bottom. Yeah, pre like drinking problems. Candi: So, which is great. I mean, , that's where you want to, that's where you wanna get the change before you hit, you know, that low, low. Do you feel like you hit a rock bottom, or do you feel like you were just above? Where do you say, I don't Deb: think I hit a traditional rock bottom. I, I mean, what even is that? Yeah. I had a lot of lows. In like embarrassing moments, , but but I never like got a d u i I I never got into any like, legal, financial, marital problems, nothing like that. Which also I think. kept me stuck in changing too, cuz I was like, well, I'm fine. Like I'm, I am still showing up at work. Yes, right. I'm happy, be hungover, but I'm still there. I'm Carrie: still keeping my family together. I'm still, yeah. Doing what I need to do to fulfill my everyday life activities, but, mm-hmm. but that never, it didn't prevent you from doing those things. Not at all. Not as a, well, it didn't prevent you from doing those things as. as someone with an alcohol, with drinking alcohol, it now with you being sober, it's like a different activity. It's different the way that you're going about life. Deb: Yeah. It's a hell of a lot easier. Yeah. I will say work became a hell of a lot easier, , Candi: especially those early Deb: mornings. Oh yeah. We, we have, we do early morning screenings, health screenings. Sometimes they start at like six. Candi: I am jealous. I'm gonna up. I'm jealous of that. I'm like, oh, Debbie doesn't have to do another screening. She's so Carrie: lucky. So you found your niche and Yeah. Deb: It's so weird. It's like, I made it, you did, you did make it Candi: and you did it so like, in a Debbie esque way. Yes. I mean, it's like she would ask a few questions. Like, I remember going to her to the first like podcast investigating, oh yes, this Deb: kandy was with me when I started atp. Yes. Well, the podcast, Candi: the podcast. What was it? Speak Boise. Oh yeah, speak Boise. Yeah. And so we walked in there and kind of just like, she was just getting the vibe, you know? And I was just like, this is so cool. I can't wait to see where this, and then she just took off. She did. She just asked a few questions here and there, and then she's like, look at my website. Like, oh my God. When did you do that? Yeah, I'm Deb: doing retreats. I know what Carrie: you're taking a week off for a retreat. What? And you organized it. Holy Candi: heck. I know. Like it's so inspiring. Yes. It's so Deb: inspiring. Yeah. I'm pretty proud and I'm, I'm really grateful. I mean, you all have helped me along and been so supportive, so. Candi: and we'll still be I supportive. Oh, yes. It won't, you know where to pop in . Deb: I do. Especially at lunchtime. Yeah, I know where you work. I know where we live. You know where we live. Yep. Carrie: Yep. I think my advice to you is just making sure that you are, you're having those social connections. Thank you. Yeah. Because I think that's one aspect that what I hear you saying is that you're gonna miss here. Right. And that before when you were drinking, you didn't have that. , you were at home taking care of the kids, taking care of family, and you really didn't have that outlet of Yeah. Being social and coming here, you were able to, to meet people and talk to people and we did things together and, and you know, so just making sure that you're staying on top of being, being social. Deb: Yes. That was great advice. Social connections. Carrie: Yes, Deb: yes, yes. Do you have any advice? I Candi: like the connecting. But I think just being confident in your decision. Yes. You know? Yes. Like, I know you're saying that you're kind of wavering on like, did am I making this decision too soon? Or whoever, like, just like you did with a t p and with identifying as a sober mom now. Just own it. You've made this decision. You're moving in this entrepreneurial genre and just go all in and Carrie: don't care what other people are thinking. I think that was the big thing for you, was coming to me to tell me that you were, you were leaving, right? And you were afraid of how I would be or how that would affect me. That the first thing that came to my mind. we're losing Debbie. It wasn't, oh, who's gonna help me and who's gonna help me do the things that I do as a nurse? Cuz there's not another nurse per se in the department. That didn't never cross my mind. It was more like, I step is Candi: not Debbie Baby , Deb: you know? Carrie: And, and I was, I felt like, you know, supporting you was, it was never a doubt that I wouldn't support you, because I knew that was where your passion was, was with atp. So don't look back and say, did I disappoint anybody or did I leave them with a mess? Which you didn't. But or did I leave them too soon? You know, did I leave at the right time? Yeah. You gotta Deb: trust the timing. No, I think that's so good. I mean, that's what I tell people, , when they're queen drinking or trying to decide, like you said, like once you make the decision. and you own it. Yeah. Like it just becomes so much easier. Candi: Yes. So you're not wavering back and forth. Deb: Mm-hmm. And I feel like I have been like, wavering in these two worlds of, of, you know, working in wellness and doing a t p and it just started to stretch me and then it just made. More and more sense with our department cuts and what was going on at home and what was going on with atp. It just let, like, of course it makes sense that I let something go. Yeah, it was, it's definitely the right, the right thing. Yes, it is my calling. I, I was laughing at the St. Al's . Candi: Oh, our calling is you, you Stal. Deb: Right before Covid. Do you guys remember they did a huge marketing rebranding? Yep. And they came out with new slogans and they were our calling Is you? Yes. And be, be the answer Yes. And. Funnily enough, I, I was just like, oh my God, I'm kind of the Saint Al Slogans. . Yeah. Candi: way to represent Deb: Debbie. I found my calling and I wanna be the answer if anyone's like, how do I change my drinking? Yeah, Carrie: I wanna see that on your web pagers. I don't, Candi: I don't think she could steal. Hashtag hashtag. Deb: Yeah. I think ST's would come for me. . Carrie: Well, you could do like hashtag with a Bumble. Candi: Be. Deb: Be the answer. Oh yeah. Oh, thanks. So funny. Yeah. Good times. Our calling phone Carrie: call, you know phone. Put a phone in there. Oh yeah. You just use symbols to, you ain't copying. You're good. Deb: Hashtag hashtag . Oh, well good. Well thank you. Thank you for taking the time to do this conversation. That of. I guess we've been talking in circles about it for a while now, but it's nice to get something recorded, so I appreciate it. Appreciate, appreciate you both. Love you both. Yes, we love you too. We love Candi: you.