[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. I'm your host, Deb Maisner. I'm a registered nurse, health coach, and alcohol free badass. I have found that there's more than one way to address drinking. If you've ever asked yourself if drinking is taking more than it's giving, or if you found that you're drinking more than usual, you may have reached your own alcohol tipping point.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: The Alcohol Tipping Point is a podcast for you to find tips, tools and.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Thoughts to change your drinking. Whether you're ready to quit forever or.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: A week, this is the place for you.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: You are not stuck and you can change.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Let's get started.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate you. I want to take a sec to invite you to the next Alcohol a Day. It's a monthly dry group where I help people practice not drinking. This is for you if you feel like you're struggling, if you feel like you're stuck, if you feel like you're broken, you're never going to get it. I want to just support you and arm you with lots of different tools to battle cravings.
Work on your thinking about drinking. Be more kind and compassionate to yourself as you're doing this. You know drinking is a habit and it's probably something you've done for years or decades. Even so it takes a while to unwind it. And that's why I'm so, so passionate about focusing on practicing not drinking. Working on progress, not perfection. I love the saying focus on the direction, not perfection. And I think it's important just to have these types of groups programs that just give you a safe place that has no shame, no judgment. A safe place where you can just learn new tools and just start unwinding the habit so that it gets easier and easier for you to drink less or not at all. I would, I would love to have you join the next Alcohol a Day. It starts the first of every month. As a podcast listener, you always get 20% off by using the code LOVE L O V E and it is hosted on a private platform. It's really important to me as a nurse just to have privacy in a safe place for you. And what you get is daily emails, lessons, accountability. You get lots and lots of tools to battle cravings. We also do weekly group chats, weekly group support calls led by me and another sober coach, twice a week. And then there's also a private chat where you can just share with others, support others, and it's just a great place to practice not drinking. I would love to see you in the next group. You can Sign
[email protected] Alcoholiday and join there. I also also will link it in my show notes. Wherever you are with your drinking journey, just know that I am rooting for you, that you are not broken and you can change. Thanks so much.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: On the podcast today are Carrie Hoffman and Zach Minick, my first couple on the show, so I'm excited about that. Carrie and Zach are the travel and adventure obsessed couple behind Bigger Life Adventures, which hosts alcohol free yoga retreats and adventure tours. They've both had their share of struggles with substance abuse and poor coping mechanisms. After deciding enough was enough at different times, they found new life through sobriety and a spiritual program of recovery which has included the 12 steps, Buddhism, adventure, plant medicine and yoga. They're dedicated to breaking stigmas against addiction in this world and passing on the hope and freedom of sobriety to others with the same struggle. So welcome, welcome to the show. Carrie and Zach, thank you so much for being here.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having us.
[00:04:10] Speaker D: We are excited to be here.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: I'm excited to have you. Like I said, you're the first couple I've had on the show and the first, just two guests I've had. So I'm glad that we're doing this together. You mentioned Carrie. You've done a lot of solo episodes, but not always together. But I just think it's unique to have a couple that is sober together and maybe has gone on different journeys together. And then here you are supporting each other and you have this business that's really interesting. So can we just start with how, how you met?
[00:04:46] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. Do you want to tell this story? I feel like I always tell it.
[00:04:49] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. So we met, we were having a guys night and they were having girls night and we were at a bar and I think it was dollar beer night and sitting at the tables next to each other and I kind of. That went from there.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: So I love that. So you met in a bar and you've been together for 15 years now?
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Is that right?
[00:05:11] Speaker C: Yeah, we were 21 when we met. We were young and yeah, just that typical like college bar night out and somehow the two tables ended up merging and we ended up, I guess the rest is history.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Yeah, my, I. My husband and I have a similar story where we met and hooked up in a bar and I think about like, would I go back to my younger self and say, you don't need to drink? Like, you know, what would I say to my younger self. And I think I wouldn't, I wouldn't say anything at all. You know, I would just say, I love you. It's going to be okay because that's how I met my husband. And we're still together 22 years and we have these beautiful children and we've built this beautiful life. And yeah, there were struggles. There was my drinking. He. He's never had an issue with alcohol, but I'm just grateful for it because it did bring us together.
[00:06:17] Speaker D: Yeah, we don't ever know like if things are good or bad right when they're actually happening or why they're happening. So like our struggles might take us to where we are now. Like, they definitely have led us to where we are now. So without all those struggles, we wouldn't be the people we are today. So I try to live without regrets either. I don't know how Carrie feels.
[00:06:33] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, I just think it's beautiful, like your story also with meeting your husband in a bar, you know, like, yes. I like look back on my drinking and I think, wow, there were some like, really, really dark times and I'm so glad that I'm past that. But also, yeah, it's how we met. So I don't regret that at all. And you know, like, we were just young, kind of dumb, 21 year olds, like doing the normal thing. And like I wasn't trying to meet my life partner at that time. But you never know like where these seemingly random nights can, can end up.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Well, I'd love to hear your experience with and maybe want to take turns sharing your stories. But like, we could start with you, Carrie. Just like, what was your experience with drinking?
Was that always your thing? Other, you know, this is a show about alcohol. Most people are concerned about their drinking. So maybe in that context talk about that and then how you ended up giving up alcohol, getting sober. We'll start with your story.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: Sure. So. So I started drinking in college. I was like always like the typical good kid, like good student growing up, like all through those years before college and into college, like kind of a perfectionist, kind of like a higher achiever. I was also raised by non drinking parents, so alcohol was always like a very big taboo in my family. My family was evangelical Christian and pretty strict with that. So I was very much indoctrinated into like the alcohol is bad. If you drink, you're like a sinner, like don't do it, like that kind of mindset.
And so it wasn't until college when I Just went to like a normal, like non religious university that I started questioning that and I started just thinking like, well, you know, it doesn't seem that bad. It seems like people are having fun, like, I'm gonna try it. And so started off innocently enough in that way. And I just remember like the first time I ever felt kind of like a buzz, like the start of that drunken feeling. I just remember thinking like, oh my gosh, I feel like so much better. Like I just felt like this anxiety I didn't even know I had was kind of like melting off of me. And I felt like more free to socialize and be outgoing and like flirt and you know, I just felt like a less kind of like uptight and introverted version of myself.
And I think at that time just not really having any other coping mechanisms for like how to put myself out there and how to like be more outgoing. I mean, I was like 18, I didn't even know really who I was, I think looking back. So alcohol at first was just like that door to feeling more like social and having fun. And you know, it continued like throughout college. But I would say like in a very.
I don't want to say normal because I don't think it should be normal, but it, it is kind of normal in like university life in this country. So, you know, just like partying on weekends and I would still go to class and I would still get good grades and I didn't like mess anything up. But I also did start like occasionally blacking out during those years from drinking. And I remember like, other friends, other people telling me that they had like never blacked out. And I kind of just thought they were lying because it just, I just assumed like, oh, it must just happen to everyone. Like, it's no big deal. So fast forwarding from there. After college, I actually joined the Peace Corps and I went to Tanzania. And I was living in this like really remote rural village in Tanzania by myself, the only foreigner in this village. And I was still super young. I was like 21, 22.
And that's when I started experiencing like more depression, more anxiety. Just this feeling of loneliness. Loneliness. And like feeling like this dream that I had had of being in the Peace Corps wasn't really like all. It was all that I thought it would be in my imagination beforehand. And so it started to get a little darker during that time. My drinking, like I would not drink at home because I was living in a Muslim community. And so that would have been like very, very taboo also to be drinking as a woman would have been really, really looked down upon. But the Peace Corps is, like, a lot of recent college graduates also, so we would meet up, you know, in cities or for trainings, like, once a month or something. And a lot of us would just, like, go crazy with the alcohol as a way to, like, decompress from the stress of living in this really unfamiliar, challenging environment. So it started getting worse then, and eventually I came home. That's when Zach and I, like, officially started our relationship. And we just wanted to, like, have as much fun as possible and start traveling together. So in order to do that, we both started working in the hospitality industry. So I was, like, serving in bartending. And once again, I found myself in, like, a job where partying is very normalized, where it's like, everyone is doing it. So, you know, you're, like, working a dinner shift and serving people all night. And then afterwards, you're like, well, I deserve it. You know, I deserve to be able to, like, get drunk now. And so just throughout my 20s, I would say things, like, slowly escalated to the point where I started having more and more consequences. Like, I would blackout more and more. My hangovers started getting worse. I would, like, be drunk, and we would get in fights that I, like, wouldn't even remember the next morning, and I would, you know, just, like, break my phone or, like, trip over myself walking home from the bar. Just, like, stupid stuff like that. Consequences were building up. And the way it felt for me was not the same. Like, my anxiety was getting worse. I still just felt like alcohol was kind of my only coping mechanism. So alcohol was causing the anxiety. But then it was also, like, what I thought to be the only cure for the anxiety as well. And so throughout all of these years, like, we were living in San Diego, working in the service industry, and I was always holding a job, and I always kind of, like, had it all together on the outside. It would just be, like, the end of the night when, you know, we would get home from the party. That's when, like, the. I wouldn't stop, you know? And looking back now, I realize that, like, other people probably went home and stopped drinking and, like, you know, went to bed. And I just, like, never had an off switch. I never really wanted to stop until, like, I was blacked out and I had to stop. And so as things were ramping up, there were a couple times where I would try to take a break. And I was able to once, like, take a break for 30 days or something. I think I read this book that was actually called the 30 Day Sobriety Solution.
And it was kind of like a self help book where it like walked you through, you know, like, looking at why you're drinking, looking at what drinking does for you, what it, where it harms you. And like, it had all these journaling exercises and things like that. So I went through this whole book and the promise of this book was like, do this book and you can like drink like a normal person. That was kind of like the promise that hooked me in. And then the last chapter of the book was like a bait and switch. I remember because it was like, actually once you get to this last chapter, you probably shouldn't drink ever. Like, it's. If you're reading this book, if you've gotten to this point, like, it's probably not going to work for you. But it was, it was kind of like a harm reduction book. So it said, you know, like, if you're going to try to drink again, don't drink at home, don't drink by yourself. Like, all these rules. And I just like completely ignored that last chapter and I was just like, whatever, like. And I, I went back out and I think from going back out to my actual last drink after that was only about six weeks. So about six weeks later, I just had like a really terrible night where I was like feeling overwhelmed with too much work that I had going on. I coped with it by like day drinking during my shift at work. I like messed a lot of things up with this project that I really cared about. I woke up the next morning just like feeling horrible, feeling like my life was over and just with this super deep, like knowing inside that I had to stop forever. So I, I, like, I just somehow told myself, told on myself at work. I think I called my mom and told on myself to my mom. Like, Zach already knew at this point, like, this is not working for her. So he's like, not surprised.
But just by like telling on myself to a couple different people, it helped with that added accountability.
And then I had one friend who I used to drink and party with who had quit about a year before I did through AA and that program. So I called her and she was like, you know, yes, I've been waiting for this day. And she connected me to some meetings in the area and I went from there and I really thought my life was over. I really thought I was never going to have fun again. And I just knew that, like, okay, well, I can't handle this. Like, I've used up all my chances of Trying to like, make this work in my life and I guess I'm just like going to have this sober, boring life for the rest of my days. But I don't see any other option. And luckily it turned out I was super wrong about that. But that's like the story in a nutshell.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So how long ago was that for you?
[00:17:36] Speaker D: I'm sorry, you broke up? When you're asking. Oh.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: So I. Carrie, I just was curious how long ago that was that you quit.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: Oh, yes. So I quit when I was 29. And so that was over eight years ago.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome. Awesome.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: I just got my eight year sober birthday this past August.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Okay, very cool. Well, congratulations to you. Thank you for sharing your story. And just because how you grew up with alcohol being just evil and that whole morality that's associated with it, and then even like your short time in the Peace Corps and the Muslim culture and how alcohol is viewed there and contrasting that with being in like, the university in the service industry, where it's like just, it's so.
I don't want to say honored, but just, it's. It's something that everybody does. Right. And it's so normalized. So it's like those different aspects, I'm sure were confusing for you.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it is so, so prevalent in like, you know, college culture and like, service industry culture. And I just thought for the longest time, like, I'm going to prove my family wrong, like, I'm going to prove that this is fine and that I can, like, handle it or whatever. And so unfortunately that didn't work out. But I, I just think, you know, we all have to like, discover for ourselves, like, what, what our relationship with alcohol can be like, if it's ever going to work or not. And I, I don't think there should be all this shame around it not working for you because it's so, so common for so many people, you know, for different reasons. And like, since getting sober eight years ago, I have had, like, more time to unravel and unpack, like, some of the possible reasons behind, like, what I was using alcohol for. Like, there was a lot of, like, secrets and trauma and pain in my upbringing. There was a lot of, like, judgment and shame that came from the religion. And so I don't think that's the only reason, but I think that played a part for sure.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Definitely. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing your story and congratulations on eight years. That's a big deal.
Yeah.
Well, Zach, what was your experience with drinking and getting sober. What was that like for you?
[00:20:18] Speaker D: I think my experience, similar to Carrie's, since a lot of my alcoholic ride was along with her, so.
Which was, you know, it's good to have a friend to drink with. But also we went down, you know, bad route together. I started drinking, like, at the end of high school. My family also was not big drinkers. They're not, like, it's not so taboo like in Carrie's family, but they're more like, you know, they're just normies.
And so they could. They can drink normally or just have a beer with dinner or something and just quit after that. So in high school, I started, like, just having, like, a little bit, like, you know, a Smirnoff Ice or something like high school kids do, and nothing too serious until the. Like that right before I went to college, I started, like, I drinking a little bit more and realizing that I did like it. Realizing now and later in life that I'm pretty adhd, I think. And I think the alcohol made my brain feel calmer. Like, there was less. Just, like, there's always a lot going on up there. And just like, that calmness felt really nice. And always being, like, you know, pretty awkward and kind of the weird kid. Like, the alcohol just made me feel like I was part of the group and like, I could be more myself maybe.
And then once I got into college, you know, I started experimenting more and just trying to, you know, I wanted to drink, like, whenever it was available, whenever I could get it. And that it didn't really affect my school for a while, but I think, like, eventually it did. I think my college experience turned more into a drinking and partying experience than a schooling experience.
And towards the end of my school, Carrie was taking college in another city. And then she came back to Ohio, where her family was living. And I was still in school, but she was done. And I went out to the bar, you know, Wednesday night. That's what you should be doing at school.
And, yeah, I met Kerry there, and she went to the Peace Corps after that. But we've been pretty much inseparable since. But a lot of our relationship, a lot of our fun time hanging out together, especially at the beginning, was in the bar. Like, that's just go in America. Like, if you're not at home, you're not at work at school. Like, where do you go? You go to the bar. So we did that a lot, and that just more and more integrated into our lives as we started working in the restaurant industry, the bar industry. It was just like, we just thought of it as very normal, just our lifestyle. Eventually we ended up doing a lot of traveling and while you're traveling, you know, everybody's kind of drinking while you're traveling. It's just part of it, at least the circles that we were in. And then when we got back from traveling, we moved to California, to San Diego, which is like a big beer scene in San Diego. So we got really involved in all that.
And I don't think for, for me, I think I blacked out pretty often and couldn't handle it most of the time. But I still like, I still kept my stuff together. I still always go to work in the morning and I was pretty decent employee for most of the time.
Um, things didn't really get bad I think, till later, till like drugs and things got involved.
Once you're, you know, you're able to stay up later and drink more than everyone else than you do. Or at least I did. And it was, it was fun. Until it wasn't. Eventually Carrie ended up getting sober. And that put a big kink into my party life, I think. I know part of me wanted her to get healthy, but part of me wanted her to keep going, I think with me. And it was, it was hard for me cuz I didn't feel like I was to the end yet, but she was definitely to the end. So there was a couple years there that really bad with our relationship. We were on completely different pages. Like she could see that I had a problem, but it was, I was still in a lot of denial. So I was in kind of that, that phase where, you know, you quit for a couple weeks and then decide, start it again because you, you healed yourself and you know, do that pattern over and over for a couple of years until like, you know, things get really bad. Last time I drank was in Thailand. We went out for Thai New Year's and then it was with our friends and they were drinking, I was drinking, Carrie was sober. She ended up going home because we were really annoying and I, we ended up keeping drinking and then we all got in a big fight eventually and just wandered off different directions and I had no money in my pockets and I just went and I slept for a couple hours in a fruit stand on the side of the street in Thailand and.
And then I blacked out. I woke up and blacked out again. And then next thing I know I'm like in front of my hotel. I had no idea how I did that, but Lucky. Just luck. Yeah. And even when you're blacked out. You still have some kind of, like, intuition. It's weird. So, like, a part of your brain is still turned on. And that at that point, I pretty. I knew, like, it was done. Like, I had to make a choice, like, either I stay with Terry or I stay with my lifestyle.
And I think that was the first time that I thought of it in that way. And it. The choice was pretty obvious at that point because alcohol wasn't serving me in any positive way. And Carrie was, like, her life was looking really good, and, like, good things were happening because of quitting drinking and all that.
So I started going. Once we got home from Thailand, I got a sponsor and started going to aa, going through the steps. I think that worked well on a surface level. It kept me from drinking, but it didn't really help me to dig in deeper to why I was drinking in the first place and things. After a couple years of straight sobriety with AA and all that, eventually I started using magic mushrooms. And through some of those experiences, I think I was able to kind of see a little bit deeper into myself and actually, like, see some of the ways that I was lying to myself and some of the, like, you know, where. Where the darkness came from, I suppose.
But, yeah, I haven't looked back. I don't have any alcohol cravings, I don't think anymore. It's like. It's pretty good if once in a while I see somebody that's really drunk, and it reaffirms my not wanting to do that. I enjoy. I used to think I was not a morning person, but really I was just hungover every day, and now I'm usually up in the morning, and I kind of like it. Still working on that, but it's getting there and. Yeah. What else? What did I miss?
[00:27:15] Speaker C: No, I think that was good.
[00:27:16] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Congratulations. How long has it been for you the last time?
[00:27:22] Speaker D: So I. I went back out there once. After six months. I found some booze in my dad's garage and had one more day. But so the last time I drank was in 2019. So five years.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: We're almost six, I think.
[00:27:39] Speaker D: Almost six, maybe.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And you guys were kind of, like, right before. I call it, like, the modern recovery movement, the whole sober, curious movement. So it kind of makes sense that you would also do the AA route, and then that later on you'd be like, I'm going to experiment with magic mushrooms. I want to go back to, you know, that you were drinking buddies, because this is so so common. And what advice you have for people who are in this situation where one is ahead of the other, you know, where one wants to quit, the other one doesn't. You've been drinking buddies, like, how do you navigate that? What are some of your tips or advice for that?
[00:28:25] Speaker C: So it was really challenging. It was really tough. I think, like in the early days of my sobriety, I was, I was trying to be really non judgmental and really like, hands off with like his journey because I knew from my experience that I had had so many warning signs and so many red flags, but I still had to get there on my own. Like, I still had to just like clay it all out to, to that, like, rock bottom as we stereotypically call it. And I think also nowadays more and more people are making that choice before they kind of like crash and burn as hard as I did, which is great. But for me, that's how it went. And just like from being together for so long and knowing him for so long, I, I kind of knew just intuitively that he would also have to like, get there to that kind of a dramatic type of turning point on his own. And so I was trying to be like, really like, okay, you know, do what you want. Just, just please don't like, bring it home with you. Please don't lie to me about when you're going to be home. Just like, trying to set like, reasonable boundaries so that like, I could protect my sobriety, but that he could live his life and hopefully our relationship would stay okay.
And I did my best with that. And it was, it was really hard because, like, I think Zach will admit to this, like, without having to take care of me anymore, he kind of started to go like more off the rails faster. And so like, he wasn't able to like, honor those, you know, don't lie to me about what time you'll be home. Don't lie to me about if you've been drinking or not types of things. He sort of, he, he like knew, I think intuitively that he had a problem also, but was trying to like, cover it up. So that was really tough. And through that process, I kind of just like tried to find things that would help me focused on myself. You know, I sort of had to like, close off a little bit, you know, to the marriage, which was unfortunate because I just knew that like, I could never drink again and that I needed to like, find my support system for that. And unfortunately, like, he wasn't like that big of a help during that time because I Know, like, he was missing that companionship of, like, us partying together. So I had a lot of friends that I would turn to for support. People in AA in early days. I also, like, no longer attend, but I am grateful for the foundation that it gave me. And yeah, you know, just like, turning to friends and asking for advice and, you know, the best advice I ever got, I think from friends was just like, you'll. You'll know when it's time to call it quits on the marriage. Just like I knew when it was time to call it quits on alcohol. And throughout these years, I was also, like, really turning more to my yoga practice. So in early sobriety, doing yoga was helping me a lot. Learning how to meditate, getting more connected to, like, those spiritual communities was super helpful. And I just remember, like, one day after a yoga class, I'm just like, lying there in Shavasana at the end of the class and just like, not even, you know, thinking about this topic necessarily. I think we're probably struggling, so I was probably stressed about it. And just, you know, when you have those, like, intuitive thoughts that seem to come from somewhere else and you're like, whoa, where did that come from? So all of a sudden, I'm lying in Shavasana and the thought just like implants itself in my brain, just like a voice saying, like, you and Zach are going to help people someday.
And I was like, what? Like, my immediate reaction was, like, what? How? Because we were in, like, such a. Such different places. Like, that was so hard to believe, but it was like such a strong, like, out of nowhere seeming thought that I was like, okay, like, maybe, you know, maybe it could be possible. And then, like a few months later, sort of a similar thing happened. We were actually at Burning man, which we are big fans of, but it was my first time going sober and he was still drinking. So I was laying in bed in my tent, going to bed by myself while he was, like, out. And I was feeling the same way, like, feeling pretty hopeless, feeling like I don't know what to do, do I call it? Do I keep going? And I'm just like, drifting off to sleep. And the same type of, like, little thought bomb just like out of nowhere tells me, give it one more year.
And interestingly enough, like, after one more year, that was when he quit. So I guess intuition, like, wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty powerful.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: So thank you for sharing your experience and what was helpful for you and that working on yourself and setting boundaries and finding support in other ways and Just. I'm sure it was so complicated. What. What was it. What was the experience like for you, Zach? Maybe even when you knew Carrie, like, because it sounds like you had been taking care of her in a way. Maybe you knew, like, this is what Carrie needs. Not for me. Like, can you share more about your experience? Especially in those couple of years when she was getting ready to quit and quit and then you're still drinking.
[00:34:14] Speaker D: Yeah, it was all. It's just, you know, very confusing because, you know, I could. I could see that she had a problem, and, like, she would just get a little bit sloppier than me sometimes and. But she would still want to go to bed earlier than everyone else. So it was still, like, while she was there drinking, like, we. We would go home together at, like, you know, before midnight or something. But once Carrie had quit drinking, then it was kind of like, you know, there was less.
Less getting away with things for me, I guess. So I. I mean, I wasn't supposed to bring it home, but I did. And I wasn't supposed to, you know, lie about my drinking, but I did. And I. That's when I started lying a lot. And, you know, if you're gonna lie about drinking or how many drinks you had, you might as well lie about doing cocaine also. You might as well lie about whatever else you're up to, so. And I wasn't doing it, like, I think to hurt her or to hurt. It was just out of just what I felt like I had to do sometimes just to, like, for my addiction, just to keep it going, because it's like the idea of stopping, like, I would. I would toy with it sometimes, but, like, it was my life. It was like everything. All of my friends, like, everything that, like, what I thought was community or whatever was wrapped up around was all of that.
So, I mean, that time was really hard. And then, like, I would. I would. She would, you know, set boundaries to protect herself, and I would see them as, like, damaging to our relationship or something.
And I don't know. I just. I wasn't trying. I was just, like. It was a. Kind of a selfish time for me, I think.
[00:36:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: That's really honest.
[00:36:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I appreciate the honesty.
I've been there, too.
[00:36:19] Speaker D: But, I mean, it was. It was. It was hard. I think that in the whole time, like, after she quit, I knew that I was going to have to quit also, because, you know, I could. I could see that she was getting better, that her life was getting better, that I could see where the problems were in my Life more, but it was more like just like a time waiting for. To hit my own rock bottom or to have, like, some big thing come up that forces it upon you.
Is that what, on my own, you.
[00:36:49] Speaker B: Weren'T ready to quit on your own? Is that what you said?
[00:36:52] Speaker D: Yeah, I wasn't ready to quit on my own.
Yeah, I just kept saying, like, no, I can do it. I'm stronger than that. I can quit. Like, and that lasted a long time too. And then just, I wasn't.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: Well, I think it's just such a good example on how we all go through this.
Similar but different. We're all on different journeys, and it takes a while to get there. And like Carrie was saying, like, it has to come from you. It has to be your choice.
And it takes a while to get there, really does. And I mean, I'm just. I'm so glad that you both found your way and you stayed together.
And what, what has life been like with you now? Now that you're both sober? You have this business, like, can you talk more about what life is like now? You said it kind of. You thought sobriety would be boring. You thought your life. Did you feel that way too, Zach? And you were kind of wrapped up in that identity, that party identity.
[00:37:58] Speaker D: Yeah, I thought that there was. There was nothing after.
Yeah, that was. That was not, not, not the truth, actually. Everything was way better.
And alcohol was. Was causing most of our problems. I don't think it was like a magic cure for our relationship and didn't. Definitely didn't fix everything to get sober. Like, we still have issues that we're still working through, but at least I think we're able to empathize more with each other and just like, we're less selfish people. I think, like, when we. When we first started getting sober, we were talking about, like, you know, how Carrie's first sponsor told her, like, your life can be bigger than anything you can imagine.
And it's like the universe has better things in stored for you than what you can decide for yourself. And I think that's been. That's been really true since then. Like, we. I stopped drinking in 2019, and that's when we. We started our business then as well. And things just, like, went really fast and really good. And that wouldn't have happened if we were. If we were still drinking. We were just able to be just like, very focused on what we were doing, what we were working on, and it was fun and distracting from our other problems. So, like, I think that's kind of what we, we dug into once we, we're, we're both on the sober train. Was just starting this business and working on it really hard together.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:39:24] Speaker C: So like to backtrack a little bit, like when I quit, we were like just living, you know, the like party kind of lifestyle in San Diego. Zach was actually like co owner on a food truck. He's a really incredible chef. So like on the surface like everything is like successful and going really well. I was managing a hostel, which was also like a party hostel. So so after I quit drinking, like that job, it was still fun, but it just like wasn't really the same anymore. And I, I soon just started getting these urges of like getting back to like some of the dreams that I had kind of put on the back burner. And one of those was living abroad again. So just like by being open to opportunities. Sure enough, I, I had this contact at the hostel I was working at in San Diego who just mentioned one day like, well, my boyfriend's cousin is like starting a hostel in Bangkok and maybe he needs help. So she puts me in touch with him and we chat a few times. And soon enough like I have a temporary like few months job set up in Bangkok, Thailand for like whenever I want to get there. And so around the same time, I think Zach was like realizing that this like super busy like workaholic food truck schedule was not all that he wanted either. And so we made this like drastic change to like, you know, put all our stuff in storage, like move out of the place we had been living for five years and move to Thailand. So that was like definitely a big, a big change, a big switch and opened up a lot of like new interesting opportunities. Zach was like not quite yet sober, but was kind of in those like final months of like getting there at this time. And so we, you know, we're working for these guys in Bangkok, like trying to help them with their business, meeting a lot of other entrepreneurs. I'm getting more and more into my yoga practice, signing up for teacher training and we just start thinking like, you know, how can we put like all our hospitality, all of our travel experience this like yoga and sobriety perhaps like all together to just like create something that would, would give something to people. And so that's how Bigger Life Adventures was born, was just the idea that we could combine like our talents and background and skills and create these amazing retreat experience experiences with yoga, with adventure, with like minded community and alcohol free for people who are interested in something like that. And so we started super small. We started with just like a little mini weekend retreat at a campground in Southern California. And it just, like, went from there. We made a lot of mistakes along the way. We learned a lot along the way, just, like, listening to people's feedback and trying new ideas. And like, every year since then, we've kind of, like, added new retreat destinations. And we also have always given out scholarships to people who are on a path of recovery because there are so many yoga retreats out there in the world, but they're all so different. There is a wide range of retreats you can go on. And, you know, some of them, a lot of them actually, they're like, serving you wine because they're like, well, it's your vacation. Like, this is how you relax. And we just wanted to create something that was alcohol free, not just for people in recovery, but also for anyone who just wanted to, like, try out having a vacation or an adventure without booze involved and making it accessible to more people. So the scholarship program is something I'm really, really proud of. And just like, how we've slowly, since 2018, built up to doing more retreats, longer ones in different parts of the world, but also we still have, like, the more short and, like, less expensive weekend ones in the United States as well. So it's. It's been a journey and it's ever evolving, but I truly feel like I am living my purpose in life, living my dharma. And I couldn't do it without Zach. He's, like, so talented. His food is amazing. He adds so much more to the retreats other than just cooking as well. Like, people just love, like, his travel stories and getting to know him. And, like, he's also really good at teaching, like, the yoga philosophy stuff as well. So we have just created something that continues to grow and fill us up. And I am, like, it sounds so cheesy, but I am living a life bigger than my biggest dreams. Especially my dreams back when I was drinking. They were, like, tiny compared to what we have been able to do now.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Bigger life adventures. What a great name. Well, tell us. Can you tell me, like, what people do on a retreat? Maybe give an example of a couple upcoming retreats for people listening and they're interested, like, ooh, what's this all about?
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah, do you want to talk about Costa Rica, since that's the next one?
[00:44:43] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, sure. Costa Rica. A super fun retreat. So Costa Rica, I think, is six nights, seven days, and it's up in the cloud forest of Monte Verde. So it's like a little bit cooler. Monte Verde is one of the most biodiverse regions on the planet. So it's a great place for, you know, any seen all types of animals and any types of nature. So this place is up at a retreat center up and up there. So I cook all the food, but it's like a Costa Rican inspired menu and I have a Costa Rican chef that works with me. And we get all the food from the local markets, all amazing fruits and organic vegetables and coffee from the farm down the street. So I cook two or three meals a day for everyone and it's all plant based, organic food, all my own recipes. And then during the day people usually have activities. So the activities for Costa Rica are going to the nature parks, going ziplining and also the one of the big activities is tree climbing in Costa Rica. So we have these friends and they set up climbing, just like rock climbing. However they're just going up the strangler figs. So there's these like real big trees with all these cool little holds and hand places. So some of the climbs, you know, you're going up maybe 80ft on a tree with ropes and harness and it's a really unique experience that's not available I don't think anywhere else in the world. So that's, that's, that's a really cool thing. And like the retreat center is really nice also. The rooms are great. There's a, there's a hot tub and a pool and you can get water massage and. Yeah, what else?
[00:46:24] Speaker C: I think well, just the yoga.
[00:46:26] Speaker D: The yoga, yeah, yeah, but people, they come for the yoga but they come back for the food.
[00:46:31] Speaker C: That is true.
[00:46:31] Speaker B: I love it. And so it's not that. So it's really just like having a vacation, an adventure that happens to be alcohol free.
Or do you still kind of have like that community sharing aspect of it or is it more focused on like the adventure side, vacation side of things?
[00:46:53] Speaker C: It's, it's definitely both. Like community is super important to us and so we tend to get people who are attracted to like meeting new people, you know, alcohol free people with similar interests who want to like have like a deeper dive into yoga and try out these amazing nature activities. And so since we've been doing this now for like over six years, it's also been beautiful to watch people form these friendships and then, and then come back. And so like now I would say on retreats we're doing, we're getting like 50, 50 like half returning guests and half new people. So Sometimes they're like reunions, these retreats which are super cool. So you know, depending on the venue we have like different options. Like oftentimes you can, you can get a private room to like have your own space and like a lot of like in introvert time, like I'm actually naturally an introvert so I understand that that's important also. But we, we don't just like do activities or talk at you during yoga. Like we do sharing circles and we do cacao ceremonies and we, we get people all like sharing as much as they feel comfortable with in order to learn from each other. Because that's been huge for me in my recovery journey is just like hearing other people's experiences and learning from that. And also like all of the yoga that I teach, I try to be really trauma informed about it. So it may be different than what people are used to in like a typical yoga studio. I give lots of options. I keep it really friendly and approachable to beginners in all levels. And I really want the yoga to be an empowering experience for everyone to feel you know, really connected to their own bodies and their, and to like learn new skills that they can take home and use in daily life. Not just like on a yoga mat.
[00:48:55] Speaker D: Nib retreats, they're, they're, they're transformational in nature. Like I didn't like this word at first but it's like, I think it's the best way to describe it because it's just like you see people come at the beginning and the way you see them change over time and just like that few days is really amazing because I think people just need to, you know, you put good food inside and you get a little bit of exercise, some nature and like that's going to make people feel so much better. Just, just, just that. So it's like we, we are good at what we do, but it's like just putting people in the right place and that's allowing them to heal themselves I think is what's really happening.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that sounds amazing. And then you do some that are shorter. You have a property in Arizona now, is that right?
[00:49:46] Speaker C: Yeah, so we do have a property in Arizona. For the last like five years we've been able to host a lot of off grid like glamping style yoga retreats here and Zach built everything here from like our yoga deck to like tiny cabins to like tent platforms and a sauna. Like Zach's also an incredible, just like hands on builder and creator visionary I would say. Unfortunately in this past Year, the county that we're in changed the zoning laws. And so we had to go through this legal process to get this new permit for our retreat property here.
Long story short, they didn't give it to us. So we're going through a big pivot with this home base in Arizona. And that's just been one of those things that like, is really tough. And we did lose like a lot of our income from having to cancel the retreats here, as far as we know going forward. And we will figure it out. And I don't think that Arizona was ever going to be like our permanent lifetime home base. So we got to just see it as the universe, like pushing us forward, closer towards whatever's next.
[00:51:02] Speaker B: So that, that's a good segue because I was going to ask, and maybe you don't even have this because of the way that you, you are, or maybe you do, but do you have plans for the future?
[00:51:15] Speaker C: Yeah. You want to talk?
[00:51:17] Speaker D: Yeah, future plans. We're building a tiny house on our land here in Arizona. So that's about half done. So whenever we have time in between retreats, I'm poking away at that. We have some new retreats coming up next year. We're going to Europe and doing some Portugal retreats, which are pretty exciting. And then we're also going to help our teachers with some yoga teacher trainings in Europe as well. So that'll be nice. We'll spend the summer over there. Other plans.
I think the big plan for the future is to go out of America, out of the United States and find some property somewhere in Central America. Hopefully at some point we would like to just be somewhere warmer. Warmer, closer to community.
Just somewhere where we can just do our practice all the time and just continue to serve the people wherever they come from, I guess.
[00:52:17] Speaker C: Yeah, we kind of feel like this retreat property that we've had and have had so many like, successes and good memories at for the last five years was like preparing us for, for the next phase, which probably will be like in a different country where there's a little bit more freedom to be creative and to run a business like without all of this red tape and bureaucracy, you know, Like, I also am pretty into astrology, which sounds super woo woo, I know, but if you get a really skilled astrologer who looks at your whole birth chart, it makes so much sense. And so living abroad is in there for both of us. And that's a calling that we both have had for a long time. Since I was doing the Peace Corps when I was 21 and all this stuff. It's like I've always enjoyed the adventure of living in an unfamiliar place, learning a new language, experiencing new culture. We've been going to Costa Rica for so many years now that it really feels like a second home. So somewhere around there, we're working on manifesting it when the time is right.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Oh, well, you two are super cool. Very inspiring. I'm so glad that you came on the show and shared your story and just cheers to Bigger Life Adventures. How can people find you?
[00:53:40] Speaker C: So we're all over the place. Look up Bigger Life Adventures on Instagram, Facebook. We also have a really cool Facebook group so you don't have to have attended a retreat to join the group, but it's a really good place to like, get to know us, get to know our community. So that's Bigger Life Adventurers on Facebook book. But yeah, all the normal places. BiggerLifeAdventures.com is the website.
[00:54:06] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and what you're up to. Really appreciate what you're doing.
[00:54:15] Speaker D: Thanks for having us on. I appreciate being here.
[00:54:18] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you so much. It's been great to connect and yeah, I look forward to continuing to listen to the podcast and just thank you for all the work that you're doing that really is helping a lot of people.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast.
[00:54:34] Speaker B: Please share and review the show so you can help other people too. I want you to know I'm always here for you. So please reach out and talk to.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: Me on Instagram @alcoholtippingpoint and check out my website, alcoholtippingpoint.com for free resources and help. No matter where you are on your drinking journey, I want to encourage you.
[00:54:53] Speaker B: To just keep practicing, keep going. I promise you are not alone and you are worth it.
[00:55:00] Speaker A: Every day you practice not drinking is a day you can learn from.
[00:55:04] Speaker B: I hope you can use these tips we talked about for the rest of.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: Your week and until then, talk to you next time.
