Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. I'm your host, Deb Masner. I'm a registered nurse, health coach, and alcohol free badass. I have found that there's more than one way to address drinking. If you've ever asked yourself if drinking is taking more than it's giving, or if you found that you're drinking more than usual, you may have reached your own alcohol tipping point. The alcohol tipping point is a podcast for you to find tips, tools, and thoughts to change your drinking. Whether you're ready to quit forever or a this is the place for you, you are not stuck and you can change. Let's get started.
Welcome back, everybody. On the show today is Dani Carr. She is the host of the popular how I Quit Alcohol podcast. Dani's journey to alcohol freedom started in 2017 with her much love australian blues musician husband, Ash Grunwaldheendeh. They did a twelve month alcohol free challenge together that has turned into just a continued life of awesome sobriety. I think that's so cool. I'm excited to hear your story. Danny is trauma informed sobriety coach and breath work and meditation teacher who uses doctor Gabor Matei's compassionate inquiry approach to healing and coaching. And her and Ash have a new book coming out. It's called how I quit Alcohol, a rock and roll guide to sobriety and living well. So welcome.
Hi, Deb.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me on today. Thank you for coming off that intro. Yeah, thank you. Thanks.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And I just wanted to share with you how I first heard about you. I don't know why this was gonna make me a little emotional, but. So my brother, who's, he's been alcohol free now three years, but so I got sober first in 2020, and then he started his journey in 2021, and he was always just so supportive of me and my podcast. However, he's like, I really love this podcast from Australia.
It's how I quit alcohol, and I just love, I love the woman on it. And he just had so much admiration for you. And so I just want to say thank you because I feel like you played a big part in my brother giving up alcohol and thank you for all you do. And I don't know why I got so emotional about that, but it's really special to have you here. I texted him today. I was like, I'm going to have Danny on the show. And he's like, oh, my gosh, tell her I wish her well. And he was excited, and he's like, she's like a celebrity for me. And I just thought it was so sweet, and so I wanted to share that with you.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Oh, thanks, Deb. That's really beautiful. It's beautiful to hear that. And. Yeah, and I could just. Oh, yeah, that I could see it means a lot to you, too, and that's. Yeah, it's great. Isn't it great that there's lots of different options for people to listen and some things will hit, you know, the right spot for some people and. Yeah, that's great. And I'm glad that I was able to help. All it was of use to your brother. Anyway. That's awesome to hear.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. So I think maybe it's your story and your story of how you quit drinking with your husband. And so it's lovely just to have your husband's story part of it. And you do some of your podcasts, quite a few together, and wrote this book together. So can you just share for people who are familiar with you just a little bit about your background, you know, who you are, where you're from, and then what your experience was. Your guys, big story of taking that year long break. I'd love to hear it from you. Yeah.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I grew up in the country, in Australia, and met my husband, Ash. We were 24 when we met, and both playing a lot of music at the time and just really immersed in that culture of the music playing gigs of a lot of drinking. And so when we met and got together, and I actually think that I influenced him a bit with his drinking to ramp it up a notch. That when we met, he was really only drinking at gigs because he thought that was the bluesy thing to do, because he's a blues musician and we, you know, got together and we're just drinking, drinking, drinking. And I'd come, as I said, from the country and the culture that I grew up in was one of, like, binge drinking on the weekends. And I. Funny, and we'll probably get into this, but in hindsight, realized I was probably a pretty shy person and drank a lot for confidence. It gave me confidence, and so I kind of needed that confidence on weekends or to feel like I fitted in. And so I didn't even question my relationship with alcohol, really, that I just drank and drank and drank and drank and drank on weekends, and then we had to have periods of time off and then not. And then, yeah, I guess as Ash and I spent more time together, that's just how that evolved. And then getting deeper into the music industry, Ash's career started to really take off a few years into our relationship together. And I guess the more well known you become, the more your rider. Do you know what the writer is? The free drinks or the hospitality that you're given to.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Okay, like your requests, like Red M.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: And Ms. Yeah, that kind of thing. So, you know, that would get, as you get more well known, that rider increases to, you know, to pretty much whatever you want. And so any amount of alcohol that you're after and you just take advantage of that, you're like, wow, free boo is amazing. So you just start drinking all that and, you know, it just kind of progressed. And I'm nothing, not blaming the music industry, but it definitely, it was what was expected. And it's okay to turn up and be drunk at your, at your work, at your job, and, you know, and then certainly probably sitting on the sidelines there. There's me out the back just drinking away, drinking that rider of ashes, and I certainly got in trouble many times that he'd get off stage and there'd be none left. And so, yeah, and look, and fast forward many years and just hanging out with people in that same industry on weekends when we weren't playing shows or there wasn't shows on, that's just what we'd all do together. We'd all hang out and drink and, yeah. And so eventually, you know, we had kids and it was, I mean, there's a whole long story. I won't go into the whole thing, but, you know, having the kids and Nash being away on tour and then me being home with the kids and not being on tour, I would end up drinking and then it would just got really debauched, you know, and not all the time, certainly. You know, I wasn't a daily drinker, but, yeah, it just got, yeah, pretty out of control at times. We're just waking up with lots of shame and remorse. Shame and remorse. Ever drinking again come third day, fuck it. Oh, sorry. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this one. Oh, you stuff it. Do it again. Rinse, repeat. Same cycle, same cycle, same cycle. And that waking up with all the shame and remorse all the time was just becoming the regular and kind of realizing, I noticed that I keep saying I don't want to do it again, but I keep end up doing it again. So I tried to moderate and just trying all the things, and then eventually my best friend said to me, I'm going to take a year off alcohol. And I was like, my God, you are. Because also the fact that she was doing it gives me permission to do it. So I was like, I think I'm going to do it too. And so I said to ash, my husband, hey, Lisa's giving up boots for a year. I'm going to do it too. Seems really extreme, but by that point too, I'd done a month here or two months there. So it was just like, okay, this is big, but I want it, you know? And I kind of wanted that permission to do it. So then he was like, okay, I'll do it too. Then. I wasn't really expecting him to, but yeah, so he said yes. And then some other friends of ours, other musicians were like, you know what? We're going to do it too. So there was a quite, there was a group of us, not everyone hung in there till the end, but there was four core, core people from that group that stuck with it till the end, till the twelve months. And then that was it. It was like, got to the end of twelve months. I mean, there's a whole big story in that twelve months. I'm not sure how much you want to go into, but I got to the end of that twelve months and had felt so changed. Like, I'd done a lot of work on myself in that twelve months, and I realized how much I didn't hate myself. I realized I wasn't waking up hating myself on the weekends. That was the driving factor, too. Every time I wanted to drink, I just kept thinking, oh, I just don't want to hate myself. I know if I do, I kind of know now I can't just have one. And I promise my friends I'm doing this for the twelve months. And I just started to realize, wow, I feel in a much better place in my relationship with myself at the end of the twelve months. So I thought I just said to ash, really scared kind of thing. Because I remember right up until two weeks before, I kept thinking, at the end of the twelve months, I'm going to drink again. I'm going to buy this bottle of red and that bottle of tequila, and I'm going to get really like messed up.
But then about two weeks before, I felt really scared of that. I was actually really scared to go back. I said to Asher, I can't go back. I don't want to go back. I don't know about you, but I can't. And he was just like, yeah, me either. And then a couple of our friends were like us too. So it was awesome. And then just kept going. The podcast and all that came later. But yeah, that, yeah, it certainly at that point, it was never about creating a podcast or a book or doing any coaching. It was very much just about, this is what I need and this is what I want, and then here we are.
Did that answer your question? I don't know if I just went on a rant there or not.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: No. I think it's so interesting. And you have a unique story that you. Well, I mean, it's unique having this musician and the rock style lifestyle and all of that is unique. But just the fact that you both did it together and then you both kept going and then some of your friends did, too. And I just think that's so great. And I appreciate you saying, like, you did do some of the breaks before, because one year does sound very daunting.
And I'm curious if you would still recommend that now or how you feel about it now when people are, like, changing their drinking or they're not sure, like, they're taking a break.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I would recommend it because it worked for me, but it's not for everyone. Like, some people want to just try a month off here or there, and that's good, too.
Got plenty of friends and people in my own family who are like, I'm just going to take a year off. I don't want to take you. I mean, I'm just going to take a month off. I don't want to take a year off just to see where I'm at. And that's. I think you've got to meet yourself where you're at, you know? Like, one thing I do know is this, Deb, giving yourself a hard time in any way or setting yourself up to fail isn't helpful either. And giving yourself a hard time about not reaching goals is not helpful either. So if it means that you have to start small, start small. You got to start. You've got to be really honest and just go, what's possible for me right now. And I was really ready. Like, I'd woken up so many times, like, not remembering putting my kids to bed and not remembering if I'd fed them, letting people down, letting my kids down enough times that I was, and just hating on myself enough. I just wanted a break from it, you know? And I just thought, give me a yeah. Yes, please. Like a year without having that sounds great.
Of course, it wasn't so easy, but, yeah, that, you know, I just think it's. It's important to just meet yourself where you're at, you know?
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, any brig is a is a gift. Right. But I kind of remember was. Was your husband talking about, for him, it was almost easier to have that bigger timeline than a shorter timeline.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So for him, he. He just thought, okay, it's just off the. Like, it's out of the question. And he adopted a different. His was an attitude of, it's easy. Just decide it's easy, and it's going to be easy for that year. You know, that was his way of seeing it. He was a big drinker. Like, a very big drinker. It wasn't easy, per se, but he decided to have that mindset, and he's really into changing your mindset. He's really down that rabbit hole. So, yeah, definitely. For him, it was like, if I just. And I think it's true too, to take the whole year out and knowing it's off the cards. Like, it's off the table for a whole year. In a way, it's a bit easier than kind of thinking, because I know with myself, when I'd have a month off, I would get so wasted at the end of that month, I'd call it much as you like, day at the end. So I'd abstain from all sorts of things. No wheat, no sugar, no dairy, no. No alcohol. And then I'd have much as you like, day at the end of it. It was probably so unhealthy. You'd eat twisties and eat all the bad food and drink all the drinks and just get wasted for a day or two and then have to recover from that. But, yeah. So I think definitely giving yourself a whole year does give you a lot of space and a lot of time to really figure it out. So.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could see, because the decision has been made, and you, because it's that in between, that's where moderation for me, where I was like, I can't do this anymore. This sucks. I'd rather have none than one, because trying to have one or two also, what is the point of that? It was exhausting. So when I could get to the point where I'm like, okay, I'm having none, that was easier than trying to figure out my rules.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: 100%. I agree. And ash would say the same thing too, that it was just easier to have none than to try and moderate. Moderating is a head fuck. Like, moderating is so hard. And I've tried every form of moderation, as I'm sure you have to deb, like, one every hour. I remember watching the clock or two drinks of water in between each glass, you know, not until this time, you know, everything. I've tried everything, you know, no wine, only vodka mixed with that much vodka, that much water, you know, like, everything. And it just didn't work. And some days it would work and then other days I would just blow out and then suddenly wake up the next day, like, what the hell happened? What happened to my moderation? I can't remember going to bed, let alone what I did.
Yeah, it's so hard.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: And then it's just perpetuating, like, those negative stories and beliefs that you have. Because one of the. The things I wanted to talk to you about was how you use compassionate inquiry and because it's something that you got trained in and became passionate about. Do you want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit?
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, certainly compassionate inquiry wasn't something that I used on myself early on, definitely much so once I'd learned it and did the course in it and everything like that. So I did a one year compassionate inquiry for professionals with Doctor Gabor mate, who's brilliant and a little controversial, but I found his approach and that approach of compassion inquiry, such a beautiful one. And it's where you basically, how would I describe it? It's where you kind of get to your core wounds quite quickly through a series of stepping stones, they call it, of questioning the feeling sensations in the body, you know, identifying the story that you tell yourself and the core emotion and then how far back that goes. Because usually we will be triggered by something in the moment. Might be someone turning up late or someone saying that, someone not inviting you to a party, perhaps, or something that invokes a bit of an emotional response from you that's bigger than perhaps it should be. And so I'll give you an example. Say if Ash leaves his towels on the floor after surfing and having a shower, and he might leave his towels all over the floor, and then I might get triggered and get really upset by that, and I start to tell myself it's because he doesn't fucking love me that he's leaving towels on the floor. You know, it takes a bit of inquiry to get to that and then to kind of, okay, what's the story? I'm telling myself he doesn't love me. And what's his story? He doesn't love me. Or if he doesn't love me, that makes me unlovable. And where does this story come from? I'm not lovable. And then to trace that right back, I'm trying to, you know, condense this down into a very quick conversation here. Is that a familiar story? Is that something I've told myself for a long time? How far back does that go? And then if I was to trace that right back into my childhood, my mum was an addict and also came from split family, where I didn't quite feel like I fitted in because I was the only child of my mum and dad. Going pretty deep now. And also there's this sense of, I never knew what I was going to get. I really wanted my mum not to perhaps take pills on a certain day and get wasted or be not available to me. And in my little child brain, I would see that as perhaps not consciously, but subconsciously, if she really loved me, she wouldn't do that. Or, you know, and if I was more lovable, I'd fit in better with these siblings who I was probably a real pain in the ass, but I'd, you know, being this young girl. But I had created these beliefs and core beliefs about myself that I wasn't lovable. And so to feel not lovable as a kid is pretty unbearable. And so you start to adapt coping mechanisms around that, and then, you know, fast forward 1015 years, you drink alcohol, suddenly you fit in. That tension's taken away from me and, okay, so what I had to learn to do was this is years later of not drinking. Learn to, when that thing comes up, when ash leaves the towels on the floor to sit for a moment and go trace it back, and then there's a part of me that feels unlovable and finding that part of me that feels unlovable and being with that part and telling that part what it needs to hear and. Yeah, so I find that I use that in my coaching with people a lot, trying to get to the core, wounding and trying to be with that part and give that part what it needs. Yeah, it's really helpful, and it's definitely helped me on my quest of expansion, I suppose. Does that answer the question? I don't know if I explained that very well.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Definitely.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: So when we can recognize our core wounds, and it's not about trauma fishing either, it's about kind of locating, going back, finding the core wounds, giving that part what it needs, and then hopefully we're not so reactive anymore. So we.
I guess we then are more liberated from that, from identifying those core wounds. There's liberation in that. We're like, oh, that's why I'm like that. That's why I act like that. Oh, that's why alcohol feels so good when it hits my system.
Okay. And then you start to understand why we use it in the first place. And it's really important, too, to identify why we use it, what's good about it, so that we can give ourselves that in a different way. And so compassion inquiry is a beautiful process where we start to really very gently trace things back and give ourselves what we need in a different way. So, yeah, I hope I explained that well. But, you know, certainly just checking out Gabor mate, too, and his amazing work. He's got a book on addiction called in the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. Brilliant book. And also the myth of normal, where he dives into a bit of that stuff as well. And it's really interesting, you know, it's not the only way I work, but certainly a large component of how I work. But that came. That came years later, years and years later, and lots of study and other things later, but I find it works really well. It's a really effective method to just get to. Sometimes it can take years of therapy to get to that core wound. It's pretty, you know, you can drill down on it pretty quickly, and it's really beautiful. Yeah.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it is really beautiful. Because I see a lot of people, you know, once they remove the alcohol, then it's kind of like, okay, what's happening here? And a reparenting of yourself in a way. And you're finding other ways to self soothe and, like, I lead with compassion, too, so much. And having that compassion for yourself. So I love the name compassionate inquiry, and I feel like there are kind of these common.
I'm curious, like, if you found, like, what some of those common beliefs are, you know, some of that I'm not enoughness, I'm not worthy, you don't belong. Like, when you're really getting into these beliefs, is there anything that you've found especially related to people who are struggling with drinking?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah, look, it seems to be one of the very common one is I'm not good enough. I'm not enough. That seems to definitely come up a lot with people in this space that, you know, in the alcohol space, anyway. Not lovable. I'm not lovable. Not worthy. They're definitely the top three that show up. Of course, there's different ones, but they seem to be the most common ones, for sure, which is really sad if you're like, oh, you know, when someone hits on that and they realize and they have that light bulb moment of, wow, I've always felt I wasn't enough, or, you know, wow, I've always felt like, I wasn't lovable. No wonder I drink. No wonder I've drunk my way through certain situations or social situations, and they view themselves through that lens of compassion or the. You know, it's really. It's such a beautiful moment where it's like, you see the shoulders drop. And not that that changes everything, Deb, either. There's a lot of work that then goes into it, then, you know, to kind of constantly notice when that part of us is triggered, and constantly, you know, going back to that, you know, I studied that course for one year. And time after time, week after week after week, we did these triads and dyads where we'd get together and practice on each other within the group. And every week I'd say, now, I'm not going to go back to that thing about mum or my siblings. Definitely not. This is something completely different. And every time Deborah would go straight back to that, it was unbelievable. Like, it wouldn't matter what the thing was that was triggering me. It would seem to always go back to that same thing. And that's. And look, one year of constantly going, it kind of got boring in the end, too, of just like, okay, yeah, I know what it's going to be. I know what it's going to be. And people within the course, we understood each other's triggers then, too, because we've been working on it with each other for so long. And that same thing, like, oh, God, yeah, there it is again. And so it was a really pretty amazing process, too, to do that course and to come out of just time after time, keep going, and it keep going back to that. It was really enlightening. I was like, wow, it's true. This is what's shaped me. And it causes all of my big outbursts. So not just my craving for alcohol, but my, like, rage outbursts that would happen, or my big explosive reactions that might happen when my 16 year old daughter would trigger me in a way, you know, so it was. But it was always going back to those same things. It was really interesting and still does, by the way. I'm not perfect. I still have outbursts and rages occasionally. Nowhere near as, like, I used to, but they still show up. I'm still working on them all the time, and. But I find that. Oh, I know what it is. Yeah, I know what that is. So, yeah. Does that make sense? Does it make sense? Yeah.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's so true. Like, there is a relief when people figure out themselves a little bit more, make sense of what's happening. Like, oh, of course. Oh, that makes sense. Like you said, like that. So, sigh of relief. And, yeah, yeah, I feel it in.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: Myself when I've acted like a dick, like two weeks ago where I've had an outburst and I've gone, I've sat there like, oh, that's why. And then I have to go apologize to my daughter and say, I'm really sorry. And, you know, it is lucky that we can, in this household, we can speak in that way that's like, I'm really sorry that I did that and I spoke to you that way and I reacted that way. But I'm able to give myself some compassion first. And then by giving myself that compassion, I'm able to be really honest and go to her and say sorry and really mean it and to understand where it came from. So I don't give myself a hard time for being a shit mum or, you know, it's beautiful. So, yes, definitely with people that you work with, but within ourselves, where we're able to have compassion for ourselves and to keep showing up with compassion all the time, and I think we can have real growth then when we're not, like, self flagellating all the time, like I did for years and years and years. Yeah.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: Oh, me too. And I always tell people, like, look, if it worked to beat yourself up and shame yourself and, you know, hate yourself, yeah, you wouldn't need to be listening to this podcast or need help or anything. Right. If that worked. And because it's so counterintuitive and we just think, like, I don't deserve it. I don't deserve to be kind and compassionate to myself. Maybe that would make me weak. Maybe, you know, there's just so many beliefs there.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Well, what are some other, like, practices either related to compassionate inquiry or whatnot, but other kind of practices to pull into people who are changing their drinking, other things that you recommend that come to mind because you've been doing this a long time now, since 2017. Oh, but then you started your podcast.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: Yes. Yes, I started the podcast, and then I started coaching probably a year after the podcast was out. And I didn't know either when I started the podcast, I was going to be doing coaching that all, just like I did a playbook, which was like a guided journal, using all the tools that we had used in that first year.
And I've definitely changed my coaching style over time, too, because at first it was very much about changing mindset, which I still do, but also now it's like changing mindset meets this really compassionate way of showing up with yourself also and really giving yourself all those parts that are triggered what they need. So as I've sort of grown and done my own work on myself, I've been able to sort of change the way I work a bit. But what was the question again? Sorry, I've gone off track.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Well, that's okay, because I was, I like listening to how you've evolved too, since, you know, since you had a full two years alcohol free and then you started the podcast and then you started helping people and just how, like you said, you've evolved and how you've coached and whatnot. So now, now you've kind of accumulated all that into maybe part of this new book, how I quit alcohol. So, yeah. What are some of, I guess an easier way to say would just be like some of your top tips, some things you find most helpful for people who are changing their drinking.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so meditation, honestly, 100% meditation and yoga. And when I say yoga, I don't mean the asanas, the poses, although that can be really helpful too. But meditation and breath work really to help kind of expand your resilience within your nervous system. I think if you've got, if your nervous system is in good shape, you're going to make good choices. So it's all about grounding yourself so that you can create some pause to make better decisions. So I feel like if your nervous system is a bit like learning how to gauge where your nervous system is at is really, really important, so you can do that self check in and perhaps create some mindfulness to create do the check in, because that's the often thing that we miss as well. So by starting a meditation practice, mindfulness practice is just so, so important. It has been for me. It's really changed my life and it's made me go from that reactive place to be able to take a pause, do the compassion inquiry perhaps, and see it, see what it is that I'm needing. So I run workshops. I've been running some workshops with a beautiful woman called Ash Butters as well, who's another podcast.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: I've met her, we've been on each other's podcast. She's just a delight.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: She's gorgeous. She's gorgeous. And we've got some more of those coming up, just really teaching people how to figure out where your nervous system's at and what you might need to give yourself. And I think that is really important to be able to take a pause before we react and go for the drink. But that comes with practice, you know, and we don't always get it right. But I think if we start these practices of being able to tune into ourselves and find where we're at in any given moment and get to know ourselves, you start to have a conversation with yourself. So I think that's a really good start. And that's one thing that I think is really, really important, whether it's just learning to take a breath or learn a diaphragmatic. You know, as I said at the start, I'm a musician singer. Not a particularly good one either. But part of your singing training is diaphragmatic breathing. And so I'm lucky that I was always able to do that. And I think just by able to do that, we can reset our nervous system really quickly and pretty quickly, too, mind you. And I always say to people doing, say, an extended exhale practice where you breathe into the diaphragm for four and breathe out for eight. Do that four times. That takes less than three minutes, probably, depending on how fast you breathe. That's going to work quicker than a scotch. You know what I'm saying? It's going to work quicker than taking a glass of wine. You've got to wait for that to go through the whole system before you get the desired effect. So, you know, I think that's a really great place to start. Definitely some kind of mindfulness practice, even if it's just taking a breath, I think is super helpful. It can really help people. Definitely helped me a lot. But I used to hate meditation. I just want to say that, too. I hated it with passion. Like, I think I might have hated meditation more than anyone on this world or earth has ever hated meditation.
I used to, like, get angry in the yoga classes. When it got to that, I'd be like, oh, what a waste of time this is. And I just, honestly, I hated it so much. And now I love it so much. It's just taken years of chipping away and just trying different things, trying different ways of meditating. And, you know, now I just love it. I have to do it every day. I love it so much. It's helped me so much. But it was my good friend Lissy Turner. She's a yoga teacher here, and she said to me, God, what's going on with you? Like, I'd storm out of the class or storm out. I was on, actually, a yoga retreat with her, and I just hate meditating. I go, it's just fucking aggravating. I hate it. She's like, babe, that means you need it.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Isn't there that quote about, like, if a man says he has no time to meditate, it means he needs whatever, multiple hours to.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: But I can relate to anyone who says that I can't do it, or I hate it. I totally get it. I totally sympathise. And I think that, you know, just starting incrementally, starting small.
Yeah. It's a really great place to start. If nothing else, just go and, you know, do a meditation course or go down to a local yoga place that does restorative yoga or something that will help you reset your nervous system. I think it's a great thing to do.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for sharing your experience and for sharing how you hated it, because I think that is really common. I hear that a lot, too. Yeah, for sure.
And then can you speak? Do you know more about, like, having your exhale be longer than your inhale and why that is important?
[00:32:54] Speaker B: So it's sort of, it's scientifically proven as well that it induces the parasympathetic response. So, you know, we've got the. We've got our fight or flight, our sympathetic nervous system response, or the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest. I could go all into polyvagal theory. And the vagus nerve, I won't go too deeply into that because that's a whole. Probably another podcast episode. But what it does is it stimulates and also tones the vagus nerve, which controls a lot of your system. So it kind of runs throughout the whole body, and it runs out into the digestive tract and to the tummy. And so basically, if you. If you breathe in and then extend your exhale, just think this, I am creating a parasympathetic response. I'm creating a rest and digest response just by extending my exhale. And that's all you kind of really need to know and do. Just breathing in for four out for eight, or info four out for six, will help get you out of that. That state of fight or flight and into that more relaxed state. If you can do it four times, or depending on where you're at, you know, if you can just breathe into the diet. And it's important to breathe into the belly, too. So say you breathe in and expand the diaphragm. A good way of doing that, too, if you don't know how to do it. We used to do this in singing lessons years ago. You'd lie and put a book on your belly and just see if you can see the book. So you could lay on your back and then put a book on your belly. And just what you want to do is to, you want to be able to see that book rise and fall. And it's a really easy way to do it. Or perhaps even putting your hands around the bottom of your rib cage there. And when you breathe in, you want the, you want your hands to sort of come apart. You want to feel them coming apart. When you're breathing, you don't want to be up into your shoulders, but, so if you can start to direct your breath down and it takes some time, and sometimes, particularly women, we're used to breathing in, you know, I remember if someone said to me, take a deep breath in, I'd be like, sucking my belly in. So you want to go the opposite. And I always say, you know, you want to see big fat bellies, you want to see that beautiful belly, big and like a big balloon. So if you breathe in for four and out for six really slowly through your nose. So it's important also to be going in and out through the nose. Actually, you can exhale through the mouth as well, but doing that for six.
So breathing in, we could even do it now together where if we. So to close the mouth off, I won't. Cause I'm talking, but you can try it dead too. So breathing in through the nose, hand on the belly. Put your hand on your belly and we'll breathe in for 4321. And hopefully you could feel that into your breathing, into your hand that's on the belly. Exhale for 654321. Beautiful. And inhale for 4321. Exhale 54321. And just notice the effects of that. Like, how did that make you feel, Deb? Even just doing that super short practice.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: I loved it already. I mean, and that was only like two concentrated breaths. And I just think our breath, our respiratory system is so amazing. It's like the only autonomic system that we have some control over. I always tell people, like, yeah, go to your breath because it's free, it's accessible, like you said. And it doesn't take long to affect the other parts of your body, affect your nervous system, bring that calm about. Like, that's so lovely and just a good reminder. Yeah, but so quick.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: And if you're still feeling a bit agitated, do another couple of rounds. And it does work. It really does work. And if you can extend the exhale even more, so say you. And it's also gives your mind something to focus on if you're a bit busy in the mind, if you concentrate on that counting and then, you know, and slowing down that exhale more and more with each breath. Suddenly you're not thinking about whatever it was you were thinking about anymore either. And that also helps to bring the nervous system back into a better place. So, yeah, I think working on the nervous system is really important. I think if you're going to quit alcohol, it's definitely right high up there on my list, being able to check in, see where you're at, understand the nervous system. There's a great book called Anchored by Deb Dana. I would really highly recommend that for people. I don't know if you've recommended that to people before or if you've read it, but it's a great one. Where you and James Nestor's book, Breath is also a great one as well. Yeah, really, really good. It's also something else I read recently, the Vagus nerve Reset, I think it's called, by Anna Freeman. I think I could have that wrong, but that was great. That was a really good book as well. So there's lots of great resources out there to learn this stuff and just learn what you can about your own body. Like, wow, there's so much out there and there's so much to learn. It's amazing.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: I know once you've removed the alcohol, then you have now you have all this time to read and learn new things and practice new things.
What would you say are some of your tips, like, for the early days for people? Because a lot of this, I think, comes later. Right. And even you've been on your own kind of self growth discovery. Maybe what worked for you in the beginning is, is you're using something different now, just always growing and learning. But for people in the early days, what, what are some of your recommendations?
[00:38:41] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I'd say for the early days, really? Like, for early, early on, like, just trying to get through is, is a big one and so comforting. Figuring out what the alcohol does for you is really important. So I'll always say to people when, if I'm coaching them or if they're in my course, it's really important to figure out what it does for you. What's the alcohol giving you? What's right about it? Because if we don't know that, and that's something I got from Gabor as well, so I didn't, that's not mine, but, yeah, I find that really useful when working with people. So what does it do for me? And if we can figure that out, we're kind of going to know. Okay, well, how can I give that to myself in a different way? So say it gives me stress relief or it gives me comfort. Okay, so let's go with comfort. It gives me comfort. Okay, so if it gives you comfort when you're stressed, perhaps what's something else that you can do that would give you comfort? And for some people, it might be just getting into bed and wrapping up. It's some, like, sometimes you just got to get to bed. That's the only safe place that you can get, you know, if your mind's super busy and you wrap yourself up in your blankets and get all your pillows, you know, or going for a walk, something that will give you a bit of a dopamine hit, like a good brisk walk can help a nice bath. Giving yourself a reward at the end of the day, that's not alcohol is. Is super important. And if you're really stuck in like a, like, it's got me by the balls, I would say if you're really at that point where it's like, I'm about to go to the bottle shop, get into a cold shower. A cold shower will change your state quicker than anything. So just trying to figure out what it is. My dog's been going a bit silly over there, figuring out what it is that you need, what you want, the alcohol, what you're hoping it will give you. Trying to figure out how to do that instead. Also, just, you know, early on, like, if you've got to go to a situation, it depends on what the alcohols are doing for you. Right. But just say, in my case, it was, gave me confidence. I drank a lot in social situations. So just, you know, and you probably talked about this before. I'm sure it's, it's nothing reinventing the wheel here, but just going, say if you're going to an event, you have to go, keep it short. Only go for a short amount of time and get out of there really quickly and be armed with something like a good non alcoholic drink. You know, those kind of tips that everyone kind of knows about, but they're really helpful, they're really handy. But if you're really super stressed too, like, I would say I just did a solo cast on it, replacing with something else. So rather than if you typically drinking on a Friday night, maybe go out and do a restorative yoga class on a Friday night or go to an art class or do something, go to the movies to give yourself something else that's going to be really nourishing and really good for your nervous system. That's not drinking. Also playing it forward. Just that. That one that everyone knows about. But it really works. Like, that worked for me early days. Like, just if I have this drink, be really honest with myself, what is it going to look like? And, you know, Deb, like you're saying we can't moderate, right? So I know what's going to look like. It's probably going to be me getting wasted. Can't remember going to bed, flashing my tits to the neighbors or my in laws or doing something f stupid. I've got to be honest with myself. You know, it just, you know. Okay, so what's something else I could do and play that forward if I have a bath instead, play that tape forward. What's that going to look like instead? And I just want those really simple tips that we all know about, but just put them into practice. Makes such a huge difference.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think. I think now, I think the further I've gotten away from it, because I'm four and a half years and you're, what, six and a half the math.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: Yeah, six and a half. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: Well, I think that one, I hope it gives people hope because it's like, oh, I don't really have to think about all that basic stuff anymore. But two, like, in a way, kind of miss it because it was such a time of, like, growth and learning and discovery. And I guess, like, the struggle, like, just the learning curve, like, that first year is. Is kind of a wild ride, right?
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:43:00] Speaker A: So when you guys. So you guys have this book, how I quit alcohol, and that might have been, like, a revisiting of your first year. Right. Can you talk a little bit about your book and how that came about?
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it really, it was a revisiting. It was really eye opening. And we'd been writing that book for some time. I remember, gosh, I think it was even before I started the podcast, I was walking on the beach. That's when I usually get all my little drops of inspiration. And I was almost running back to Ash because he'd written a book before, and I was running back to him going, we've got to write a book. We've got to write a book about how we quit alcohol. Especially you, Ash, because you've got this, you know, a big audience. And I think it would be great for people, especially in the music industry, like, to hear that there's this person that, you know, and he was so in the grips of it, and so I was really inspired back then. So we started writing a little bit then. And he was like, oh, I don't know if I want to. And I'm just like, come on, come on. That's actually how the podcast got started, too, because I was like, well, if you're not going to tell the story, I'm going to.
And that's how it started. But it started from this inspiration about, I think it would really help people to hear this. And so over like a couple of years, just write down little bits and pieces and really got into writing and talking about those, the tools that we used early on, things like gratitude, things like having our masks. Like, it really was everything that we used, everything that's in that playbook that we've got was all those things that we used that were helpful to us at the time. Lots of changing mindset stuff. And so, yeah, then the book, of course, then we get an editor in and the editor's like, you've got to tell a bit more of your story. So we talk about things that happened, you know, Ash Tellson wild stories about like, being on tour, playing in front of thousands of people, supporting the cat empire or some huge bands like that, and just getting completely shit faced or fights outside of a brothel with someone that had broken into our van. He was, you know, all these pretty crazy stories. But so it's sort of, it's a meeting of, it's kind of like part memoir, part self help book, I guess, and just, it's a real, just a really honest account of what we did, what it was like for us, much like the podcast, like what we did, what it was like, and how we got out of it. And so, yeah, the book is out mid September. It's available for pre order now. And we're self publishing the book as well. We decided to self publish it rather than go with the publisher. And just because we just sort of wanted that control over it and we wanted it how we wanted it. And also, we've both got fairly big platforms, so we didn't want to kind of give all that away to someone else, also to a publisher. So that was a big decision to make. Yes. So it's going to be out there, but probably, yeah, so we'll be selling it through our website and on Amazon and things like that. I don't really know yet. We're just kind of going with it. It's not, we're not pouring our heart and soul into it either. It's just like, it's done, the book's done. It feels really honest and authentic, and it will be out there for people if they want it.
Hopefully it will give them some inspiration and help them on their journey. I mean, that's why we're here, right? Like, so we do the podcast or you write books, you want to help someone and really hope that it does help someone or whoever. A few hundred people, perhaps. I don't know, but yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: I think it's gonna help. And I like that it's a rock and roll story. That's not your typical rock and roll story. You guys have been married for how long? Have you been married?
[00:46:31] Speaker B: We've been together for 20 something years. Long time.
We've probably been married for about twelve. Oh, no, no, sorry. My daughter was. She was two at our wedding. Our daughter was two, so. And she's 16 now, so 14 years we've been married. Yeah.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think also the other part, and something I'm passionate about, too, is just showing people that there are other ways of quitting drinking that you don't, you know, for so long, it was either go to inpatient rehab or AA, and that doesn't resonate with a lot of people. So having all these different stories, these different ways that we can change our drinking, become alcohol free, is so important, I think.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Look, on my podcast, too, I'll have people that have been. Have been doing aa or doing aa or people rehab, or people have done my course or someone else's course, because it's different, you know, and it doesn't really matter how you get there, just as long as you get there in a way that works for you. That's why I really like to also get all sorts of people on and not just talk about, like, my course, for example, because it might not work for someone, might not be their cup of tea, so as AA might not be someone's cup of tea, but it's just important to hear lots of different stories and what, you know, eventually something, someone will go, actually, that. That sounded really good. I might give that a go. I'll see if that works, you know, and it might or might not. That's just. I don't know. I think this whole thing like alcohol, I'll be honest, deb, I reckon that alcohol is a very small component of what's probably going on for people a bit deeper, that's a bit below the surface. And it took me a long time to realize that there was lots of stuff through compassionate inquiry and those other things, there was a lot more going on for me under the surface, you know, and so just sort of getting to the bottom of those things is. Is. Yeah. Really nice. Really beautiful.
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, beautiful. I agree. I agree. Well, tell people how they can find you and find your book.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Okay. Well, the best way to reach out to me is probably Instagram. I'd be most active on that, I would say. And that's how I quit alcohol. Yep, that's it. And the website is iquitalcohol.com dot au. And so there's lots of. Yeah. Different ways in which someone could work with me. They might come on a retreat. I run a lot of retreats in Bali. I've got my course. Got the book. You can order the book there. Yeah, there's plenty of resources in there and lots of. Yeah. On my podcast, just lots of different resources and things. And I'd love to get you on the podcast, too, Deb, and share your story and what you're doing. That would be great.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: I would love to. I would be honored to. And my brother would be happy that I was podcast, too.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So thank you for that. I will definitely take you up on that.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: Yeah, amazing. That would be so great. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone wants to reach out, I guess they can. Through any of those channels, I guess perhaps is a good way of doing it. Yeah. But I also just think too, like, quitting alcohol, too, like, getting yourself. Giving yourself that space to have some clarity. And that's what that one year really gave me. And it's not about, like, pooh, don't drink alcohol, or alcohol is bad for you or anything like that. It's like, do something that gives you space and clarity, and that's a really loving choice for yourself, especially if you've been someone that's been giving yourself a hard time for years. Just, you know, whether it's that you take one day off, for some people, that's huge, you know, to take one day off, and then maybe you might take the next day off, and then you might take another day off, and then you might go back, and then you might take another day off. It's just. Just doing what's right for you at the time and just being super, super compassionate with yourself. You're not going to get it right all the time. And none of us get it right all the time, whether it's drinking or this whole, you know, meditation or, you know, just trying to be a good person. Sometimes I'm a real bitch.
I try not to be, but sometimes I am. Sometimes I really fuck up. I fuck things up. Sometimes I yell at my kids, you know, I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to be. But I try and meet myself with compassion all the time and just keep working on myself, you know, try and work on calming my nervous system. I have to work really hard at that, Deb, every day, like, because I'm quite a high, strong person. So meditation is really important for me. And definitely taking out alcohol was huge. It made such a big difference on my anxiety. I was having a. A lot of panic attacks. Made a huge difference on my mood. I still have moods. I didn't really have any anxiety attacks. That was interesting after I quit alcohol. But then, you know, it was a slow progression of this kind of continued evolution. And I hope I do continue to evolve as you do, too. I'm sure it's just like that daily inventory, checking with ourselves and how am I doing right now? How am I doing right now? What do I need right now in this moment to. To show up as a good person, to show up as the best that I can. And just being super kind to yourself, I just think that's really important, you know, whether you stumble or fall. We all do. Like, I tried so many times to quit alcohol before it stuck for me. And I don't know why it was that it stuck that time, but it did. And I'm super grateful. I'll never go back to drinking because. Mainly because I've learned I don't feel that's a loving choice for myself, you know? But life is so much better without it. Like, we don't have big fights, really, anymore. We do fight occasionally, but not these big alcohol fuelled flights and fights. I make so much better decisions for myself. And life is just infinitely better because I'm more connected to myself rather than drinking. Drinking. I don't know, drinking on things that. Yeah, just, like, if I'd be ruminating or hating on myself or just. I just get to be connected with myself and I feel like that's awesome, you know, but you just. You do your best. Everyone out there, we're all just doing our best, right? And I think we really are, you know, so important to know that we've just doing our best. Yeah.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Yeah. What a lovely message.
[00:52:48] Speaker B: I think it's just really important. And it's really important, as you probably know, too, that being in this space, it's really important to also let people know that we're not perfect, that we mess up sometimes. And, you know, occasionally there is an alcohol craving that happens, that shows up and I'd say six and a half years, and I don't have them very often, but they do happen from time to time. And I'm really open and honest about that and how I handle with that because that's how people learn and people feel safe also. So. Yeah. Anyway, I hope I'm not waffling on too much, but I really feel like that's an important. I just want to really stress that. That we're not perfect and we do our best and just keep trying. Just keep getting your eye on the prize of where you want to be and keep working towards that and doing things that are going to help you get there. And if that's taking out alcohol, take out alcohol. If that's meditating, start meditating. If that's going for a walk with your mates, do that, but just do something that's going to help you get on that path of where you want to be, I think. Yeah. Making that the focus more so than getting rid of alcohol, it's about the person you want to become.
[00:53:51] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: That's what I want to say. It took me a long time to get there, but I got there.
[00:53:56] Speaker A: I'm so glad that you did. It's just a message that cannot be shared enough, just letting people know that they're worth it. And I remind people who are kind of caught up and maybe getting stuck on the drinking and not quite getting to where they want to be. Like, what you put in your body doesn't make you a good or bad person. Like, you are a worthy person no matter what, because you exist, because you were born, because you are here, you are worthy and you are enough. And I just think I'm glad that you brought it up and you're so passionate about it because it's just somewhere along the way, we lost that. Like, babies don't have to prove their worth. My dog doesn't have to prove his worth. That beautiful tree outside doesn't have to prove its worth. But somewhere along our human journey experience, we've gotten to where we have to have all these labels, all these certifications, all these justifications just for being on this planet Earth. And I just. I love the reminder, like, you are enough just by being here, by being you. That is enough.
[00:55:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I just feel like if everyone could get a taste of that and start to bring that into their life, just reminding themselves, it's okay, I'm okay, it's okay. It's okay to stuff up. It's okay. If you were a bitch, you know, hopefully you can repair that and go back, honestly. And, you know, I think part of doing this work is gives you that space to be able to be vulnerable and honest and go back and say, hey, I stuffed up there. I'm really sorry about that. Yeah, that wasn't a. That wasn't a kind thing I did or whatever, but just to keep showing up and checking in. Yeah. How am I doing right now? What do I need that's just so important. I think that's so important on this journey. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: Well, I'm so glad we're on this journey together and that we finally got a meet. And thank you so much again. We will definitely be in touch and I'd love to come on your show and read that will be made. Spreading the word.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Keep spreading the word that you're enough and you just do your best and. Yeah, yeah. And don't compare. That's the other thing I want to say, too, you know. Do you know how to compare yourself to anyone else, you know, for people listening, if you're worried because someone else you know is doing that, they think that looks better than you. Whatever. Don't compare yourself. Keep doing what you do and just know that you are enough. You know? I'm enough. Make that your meditation every day. Breathe it in. I am enough. I am enough. Beautiful.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: Love it. Well, thank you. Go have a wonderful day in Australia.
It's nighttime for me here. You're in the future. I love that. And people, definitely check out how I quit alcohol, the podcast, the Instagram, Instagram, all your retreats. Those look amazing. I was just looking at your website like, I want to go to Bali. I want to go here and then check out the book. I think that will be a fun, entertaining and helpful inspirational book. So how I quit alcohol. Thank you so much.
[00:57:15] Speaker B: Thanks, Deb.
[00:57:17] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Alcohol Tipping Point podcast. Please share and review the show so you can help other people, too. I want you to know I'm always here for you. So please reach out and talk to me on Instagram at alcoholtippingpoint and check out my website, alcoholtippingpoint.com, for free resources and help. No matter where you are on your drinking journey, I want to encourage you to just keep practicing. Keep going. I promise you are not alone and you are worth it. Every day you practice not drinking is a day you can learn from. I hope you can use these tips we talked about for the rest of your week. And until then, talk to you next time.
