How an Alcoholiday Changed a Life

Pod 62 Lisa Tyrrell Deb: Welcome to the alcohol tipping point podcast. I am your host, Deb . I am a registered nurse health coach and alcohol free bad-ass. And today I have my dear friend from Australia. That was probably a terrible accent, but I am just delighted to have Lisa Tarell on the show. Welcome Lisa. Lisa: Thank you, Deb. Thanks for having me and inviting me. Deb: I'm so glad to have you. So Lisa has been a part of the alcohol a day, which is a monthly group that I run and it's just, you've been just kicking butt. You mentioned like you are approaching nine months, alcohol free tomorrow and I'm. So excited, like I said to have you on the show and just share your Lisa: story. Yes. Thank you. I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to share. Deb: Well, tell us, tell, you know, for someone just listening, just, can you do a brief introduction about just who you are a little bit about your background, where you're calling from? Lisa: So I am an Aussie girl from the mid north coast in Australia, which is I'd say five, six hours drive from Sydney in between Sydney and Brisbane. So. Growing up. I'm very blessed. I've had a beautiful environment to grow up in and I am a mom. I have three children and I am a nurse who works very hard shift work. And I have been a drinker for 30 years. And that's basically where, where I where I started. With you, because 30 years down the track of drinking a bottle of wine practically every day was starting to take its toll on my physical health. I think it coldly taken its toll on my mental health much earlier, but I think yeah, after, well, it's probably not quite 30 years. It's more late probably between 25 and 30. Which is a really long time to be drinking a bottle of wine. Deb: Sure. So, so what was your experience with drinking? Like growing up in Australia? All of Lisa: that. All right. So I grew up where alcohol was just a part of everyday life. My family would have parties and barbecues with their friends and drink, and then I became a teenager and started, you know, the party, just doing the party thing where I would drink. On the weekends as soon as always where we can go clubbing at 18 here in Australia. So I started drinking binge drinking then and just sort of cruising along in life until I became a mum at age 27. And I found being a mum extremely stressful, and I found that wine was a lovely way to. Escape the stresses of being a busy mom at the end of every day. So that's pretty much where you know, where it, it began, I guess it's, it's, it's a, it's a problem now that I look back drinking every day was not good for me. And it wasn't good for my, my, my journey in life. But you know, it, I felt that it, it, wasn't a problem drinking a bottle of wine a day was okay. Deb: Yeah, because here you grew up in Australia and drinking culture, I'm assuming is the. Lisa: Yeah. Great. So just doing a bit of research and, and watching and being in your, in your, in your group and meeting people from other parts of the world, I've discovered that drinking is in Australia, really isn't any different than probably it is in America. We do it. We do it to celebrate. We do it party. We do it too. With sport. We do. Pretty much everywhere. So my drinking probably became, it changed to being something that I would do by myself. And it was kind of a be hidden, I guess. I would, I had control of it because I would only keep one bottle of wine in the house at any time. So I would, I would. Purchase wine every day that I wanted to drink. I would never keep more in house because if it was in the house, I would more than likely drink it. And I was scared of that. So in part, I think that maybe that's what kept me going for so long because it was just. A bottle of wine a day. I don't know how much damage can you do to yourself. And I was used to it. I would be at still be able to function, get up and go to work, look after my kids. And you know, pretty much be still be myself. But then I, yeah, I, I started life gets in the way of, of this. And you start to have, you know, inevitably things happen in life that is sad or that ah hard to deal with. And then alcohol cha your relationship with alcohol changes, I think as you get older. Deb: Yeah, it definitely can turn from like something for fun and celebration to just like a friend to keep you company when you're you're lonely or sad or stressed after work. Lisa: So alcohol became my DD friend after I lost my best friend, my husband in a car accident where my kids were six and eight and I just went into, I was everybody on the outside would say that I coped very well with the death of my husband and the father of my children and my, you know, my rock. But I think on the outside, it was very different to what was going on for me on the inside. So I would just function through the day and just long for that four o'clock time to roll around when I could just crack my bottle of wine and, you know, go into my, into my thoughts and my emotions. Yeah. And get them out that way, just, you know, deal with, deal with what was going on internally that way. And then that sort of has stuck with me really until I like I stumbled across you and you helped me to change that. Deb: Well, tell me more. Cause it sounds like you, you could've kept going the path that you were going right. And convincing yourself, like this is fine. Not having a lot of negative consequences looking okay to the outside world. So, so tell me more about like how, I guess how you found alcohol tipping point and just made the decision. Lisa: Yeah. So I, I always knew, I think what you first taught me me when I've began the alcohol a day, was it kind of all starts with identity. So I, I really. My identity. It didn't sit well with me that I was someone who would drink a bottle of wine every night. I felt I knew it was wrong and I, and I would be embarrassed when I would line up at the bottle shop and buy my wine every single day and often ran through my mind thinking these people probably think that I've got a drinking problem. So I think that I, my identity that might my view of myself was. That I wasn't that person, but I continued to behave that way. So every year, probably for the last five or six years in Australia. And I'm sure you do it in the us as well. We run a fundraiser called dry July. So for one month of the year, Be able to not drink alcohol and I never had a single problem with it. I, by the time I got to the end of the month, I would feel fantastic and just be so grateful for a whole month off, not drinking alcohol, but as soon as August rolled around, oh, it would be straight back into that same behavior. It was almost like. I didn't, I didn't want to do it, but I would, I was compelled to do it. So I did that. Yeah. So dry July happened for about five years for me. And then last year in 2021. I did dry July and then August rolled around and I got straight back into the same behavior and I was starting to have some physical effects from the alcohol. I started to feel like I started to get some pain. I mean, I don't know whether it was alcohol related, cause I never went to the doctor about it. I just being a nurse self-diagnosed and I felt like maybe my liver was starting to really struggle with the processing of the alcohol and yeah. And I just really felt stuck. Like I wanted to, I wanted to achieve some things, but. Alcohol was stopping me from achieving my goals. So we got to I've got to the end of August, which was perfect timing. And somehow during my dry July experience, I ended up in dry July Facebook group, which when I joined. I thought was related to George alive, but it actually wasn't. And this is something that you're involved in. I, I, I know that you're in that group and they're up popped yeah. So sort of listen or read a lot of people's stories, but I always found them a little bit old quid and oh, I don't really know that I'm that person. I don't really know that I have that big a problem. And then I think it got, we kind of here in Australia, went into a pretty strict lockdown where, where my kid, my child Angus was at home from school and I had to stay home and look after him because the schools weren't operational. And I had it happened right at the end of August. And I was just sitting out here on my veranda. Pop this alcohol a day and I thought, Ooh, that's something that I, you know, I could probably do, like the end of August. I was feeling crappy. I didn't want to drink anymore. I realized that I needed to do something more than just abstaining from alcohol for a month. So I looked, I looked at it and I thought, oh, it's going to cost me money. Do I really, really want to commit to this? And then I realized that it was probably the next day that I would have to start, which meant that, you know, like, I couldn't really say goodbye to alcohol properly. And then I just thought bugger it. I'm just going to do it. So I signed up and. You know, all this wonderful content started coming towards me. And I just because I was at home and I had nothing else to distract me, I was able to just throw myself completely into the content of the group and the people that were, you know, in this community that also had the same struggles as me. And for a whole month, I just lived and breathed. Being an alcohol free bad-ass and yeah, that's, that's pretty much how I ended up in the. Deb: Oh, I love that. I haven't heard that story. I always kind of gives me goosebumps just because, I mean, Lisa: it's good because you, to me just dropped me being at being your awesome self had just dropped me a lifeline as it was like. I mean, I know that people say things happen at the right time and when they're meant to, and I truly believe that. I think that if I had have stumbled across you 10 years ago, that I would have been able to already to to make a change. But now I'm 50, I'm 54 now. And. A bottle of wine a night for a 54 year old is not a good look. So I I really felt like it was now that I needed to make a change. And if I didn't make a change, then I was just going to go into my old age with this bottle of wine a day, drinking habit and everything that comes along with that. Deb: Yeah. Yeah. Like I was saying like goosebumps, I mean, you're right. Like you were in the right place at the right time. And it was just like, it was meant to be the universe, put us together. Lisa: That's exactly it. And I mean, I know there's groups here in Australia, I've, I've since found them and looked at them and, but I just feel like what. The way that you deliver the content and the, and, and honestly, like, I can remember not sweat cause because we have a different we're in a different time zone. I can remember in a couple of nights it was a few of the group members that was struggling and they just kind of put it out there. And because I was really the only one awake, everyone else was asleep. Oh my gosh, I really need to help this person. But then you would just pop up. And say the perfect thing. You just always have the right. You just have the right words for every situation. And I just, I mean, or if you, I really am, Deb: that's really sweet. I'm like tearing up, but Lisa: probably your biggest fan. I think I'm probably turning into a bit of a groupie. Oh no. Surely, what you offer to people who struggle with drinking is just such a, it comes from a place of genuine care and just, you've just got this really gentle approach because I wanted to say, just stop. Just don't do it just stop. But you will always say, be so gentle with these people. And it just, it just blew me away every day I would get up and there would be something beautiful that you would post or, you know, and then that's probably what helped me to make it to the end will make to the end of September. And then like, I've got, you know, probably about the 25th of September, because I, because I was completely oblivious to this, you know, what this group was and what it was. I didn't realize that there was people in the group that had probably done. The, the course or the group early out. I just thought that it was a one month thing. Keep rolling over with it. And so about the 25th of September, I'd have started to think, oh my God, like, I don't think I can continue on. I think it's going to be like, it is every July where I just finished and I'll just go straight back to my old habits, even though I had all the information that you had given us. I still, I didn't feel like I had enough traction to do it on my own. So I think I might've done. Four or five months of alcohol a day. And with each month I just got stronger and I got to the point where I am now. Really? I I'm still, after all this time, not, not how to drink, not even close to. Deb: I know that I just celebrate you. I I'm so happy for you and you should be so proud. Lisa: So I don't really know what made me. Be able to succeed. I'm still, I'm still searching for that. Or maybe I'll never know why, or maybe, you know, that there might be some way down the track where I struggle again. And I, but to me it was something that I felt so strongly about that if I fight. If I failed and I know that you push this all the time, it's like, you just get back up and you keep going. But for me, that was not an option. I felt like if, if I failed, then I would be, I would never succeed. So it was really important that I stayed strong and I didn't care. Deb: And you just kept going. Lisa: And I just kept going and I'm nine months in the grand scheme of things. Isn't really a long time, but I feel like I'm strong enough now. And I have enough experience or enough practice to be able to sustain, to sustain it and look up. The emotions of with alcohol, the way I feel about it, you said, I, I actually really hated, I hate what it takes from people. I hate the disease that it causes in people. And I hate that. There's not enough awareness about how, how bad alcohol is. I hate that and that's probably not a real good, height's not a good emotion. I know that. I that's just how I feel about it. I feel like it's just, it, it felt like my friend, but it's definitely, it was definitely in those, in those times of grief, alcohol was not my friend and alcohol didn't really help me. It just kept me on a path of, you know, Of being sterile islands and they're not moving forward 30 years of, of, you know, of doing this. And I've finally realized that that alcohol was stopping me from moving forward. Deb: Well, how, how has your life changed? In the last nine Lisa: months? Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't think it's changed as much as I would like it to. I feel like 30 years of drinking, you really have, you've really got some patterns of behavior that aren't going to change overnight. So, I mean, obviously I feel healthier. And I feel like I'm more present and I, but I feel like I've still got a lot of work. I still got a lot of work to do. So it's, it's opened the door for me. Look, it's slept that crack of light in. I know you love that Leonard Cohen saying it's, it's like the lighting for me to actually grow. So I'm still at the seedling stage. And I'm just going to be really kind to myself and just nurture, nurture me so that I can be better. Deb: Well, and it's like you were saying at the beginning, I think even before we started recording, you're like, I'm still new. Like I'm still getting my legs underneath me and yeah. Yeah. Lisa: So in I, since the alcohol a day five, I had to give up the alcohol. Unfortunately I tried to hide it. That's right. I didn't keep it off. I graduated. But I, I, I did feel like I needed that sense of community. So here in Australia there, you know, there's, there is a few groups, so I have joined one it's called sober in the country, which I'm incredibly proud to be a part of. It's a closed private group. And so you have to be invited in basically. And it's it's for people who live in the country who are re remotely, not in the city. So don't have access to a lot of the the groups like AA, I guess. Even though a lot of these groups are online now I think that being in the country here in Australia is very awesome. And yeah, so I've, I've joined that. So now I feel like I'm S I'm part of a different community. And I'm running with that. So that's, that's really good, but I'm missing all my American friends. Deb: Well, I'm glad you brought up communities because I was going to ask you, like, what, what was most helpful for you from the alcohol a day from the. Lisa: Yeah, definitely community definitely feeling the connection with other people, even though it was, it was very, it was, it was grief in terms of, you know, I didn't really have the time to connect with people online, like face to face. But I did. I really connected. I felt with people just with the group, with the group chats and things, which was really, really helpful. I think just having access to you, being able to talk to you. If I, if I felt like I needed, or just having your feedback, just, you know, having your encouragement saying, you know, have you're doing well or you're, you're awesome. And I really felt like you were cheering me on Deb: absolutely. Lisa: Well, thanks. Deb: Well, I think that's so important because I think for other people listening, you know, whether you're, you're changing your drinking with a AA, or you do an alcoholic day with me, or you do anything else, just finding community is something that's so helpful to change your Lisa: drinking. Yeah. I, I think also the, obviously the content was, it was perfect for me. I felt like you did all, you took all the hard, all the legwork out of learning about why alcohol is, is as damaging and as controlling as it is. I'm pretty lazy. So I didn't, you know, I I've, obviously there's lots of books. There's lots of things out there that you can, you can learn. But I, I felt like you just wrapped it up and handed it in an easy. And with with the you know, the yeah, no, no, no, no, I I've lost it now. Yeah, just your, what do you call them? The modules. Yeah. Oh, okay. Deb: I'm like wrapping a present up with a bow. You're like the actual content. Well, so. Don't you think it's interesting though, Lisa? Cause we're both nurses. Do you feel like. You discovered so much about alcohol that you never learned in nursing school or in health class Lisa: or? Yeah, no, no one ever learns this stuff about alcohol, not as a nurse. I mean, I look after I'm a palliative care nurse, so I work, I look after lots of people with cancer and I know that cancer, I mean, from what I've learned, cancer is a lifestyle. A lot of the time, some of it sometimes. Hereditary, but mostly it's lifestyle. And I know a lot of the people that I look after have cancer because they either smoke. They drink, they have an unhealthy diet. So I already knew that. And I guess that was probably always the alarm bells were going off for me because I knew that, you know particularly the thing that scares me the most is the. The mouth and the tongue cancers and the esophageal cancers that primarily related to alcohol. And they're like, I just thought I do not want that. I do not, I don't want cancer, but those ones I do not want. So I, I knew that I ha you know, as a nurse, that. The alcohol, but that's it, that's the funny thing with alcohol. Like you, you know, these things and you know, it's not good for you, but every day at four o'clock, it doesn't matter that you know, those things because the alcohol takes over and you taught, you taught me that I wasn't broken in the way that my behavior wasn't because I was born again. It was because alcohol just had me where it wasn't. Deb: Yeah, absolutely. I, I really don't like to tell to say that people are broken because I don't believe it. I think that our brain is so good at moving us towards pleasure and away from pain. And if you find yourself turning to drinking more and more, we've got a pretty efficient brain that knows what works and that's not broken. That's working exactly as it's designed to. Exactly. Lisa: And as soon as you, as soon as you know that, well, this is what helped me as soon as I understood that about my brain. I could control those thoughts that would come to me every day and just work. I mean, it was hard. I'm not going to say it was easy. And it's still can be hard, you know, it's still, those thoughts will pop in even eight months down the track, but I feel like I have the tools to be able to just work through it, just work through those thoughts. And before, you know, it. You're on the other side of it and you're another day down and you're another day without alcohol. And they look at all the money that you've saved and look at all the health benefits that you've gained from just a short period of time in the day, just being strong and just working through those feelings. And, you know, you showed, you gave me the tools to, to do that. I wouldn't have been able to do it without, without those tools and commitment and commitment. That's another thing. Like you have to be able to commit to it because it's hard and it would be easy just to decide every day that this is what you're going to do. You're going to go and purchase some alcohol and drink it. But if you really want change, you have to make that commitment and you have to, and you have to be strong and stick. And I think that's another thing that alcohol takes from you. It just, it takes your ability to be able to do hard things. And, and because every day you just wanna just, just clock out, just tap out and done that. You're right back to square one. So yeah, so I really have to say that the, the tools that you gave were just so helpful to be able to work through those hard times and, and, you know, there's other people out there who are in exactly the same boat as you, and they're all trying just like you are, and then there's you there cheering, cheering everyone on. So, you know, it's. I think the way that you deliver it, it's, it's really hard to file. Deb: I appreciate this. I feel like it's turning into a bit of an infomercial. No, no, I think it's good. But if you. Lisa: That I'm not getting paid for this. Deb: We're going to make a commercial. No, I appreciate that so much. For those people that are listening need, like what, bro, what are some specific tools that worked for you? We talked about a few, but can you think of a. A few other specific tools, whether we talked about them in my group or not. Lisa: So I think that I became a big fan of kombucha. And I know that the jury is kind of out a bit with kombucha because it is fermented and there, and there probably is a little bit of alcohol in it, like tiny, tiny, but I just love it. So at the end of the day, Now I still get that feeling like I just want to, to drink something. So I just, I crave kombucha now, so I always try to have it in my fridge. And as soon as I've had that one gloss, I feel I, I just feel that that craving is gone. So that's, that's one tool in the beginning, definitely eating whatever I want. Yes, even still now I don't really care about calories. I just, if I want something, I'm going to have it because it's not alcohol that I'm wanting. And, and to be rid of that from my life is is just, it's just gold. What else? Yeah, just Deb: not a little, is that a little birdie I'm hearing in the background? Lisa: My turkeys. Deb: I love, I just, I know that you have some wild turkeys just for us. Lisa: They're just free range, Deb: free range, Lisa: picture. Deb: For people listening right now, paint the picture of like where you're at, because it's so I love having you in group because it was always like there's Australian Lisa: and it's not, it's funny though, because turkeys are an American thing. They're not Australia and I've learned all my Turkey friends are all American, just like my, mostly my alcohol-free friends as well. Okay. So I live in, I live in the Bush, 160 acres of Bush and they go, there's another, that that's something else that really helps me just getting out in nature. If I was feeling low in energy or want wanting a drink just go and have a little walk out in the Bush. This clears your head. Yeah, we've got lots of animals here. I've breed turkeys, and we've got chickens and pony and an alpaca. We've got lots of animals so that I love to be able to, just to get out with my animals and just it's, it's my hobby. And I do love that. What else do I love? I wish I could say exercise, but I'm unfortunately at 54 and being a shift worker exercise, probably isn't a priority. That's something I would like to change. Deb: Yeah, it seems like once you get the year, like this year here, you're at nine months, once you get a year under your belt, then it's like, okay, maybe I can make some other changes, but it's just so key to get Lisa: that. Yeah. Yeah. You really just have to just keep my blinkers on and just stay focused. Just, and I, some days it's easier than others. I'm not sure. I really feel like not every day now I'm thinking about at four o'clock, I'm not thinking about buying alcohol and drinking it. So I think that's getting easier. But you know, 30 twenty-five 30 years of habitual drinking. Is, it takes a while. It takes a while. I'm imagining it will take me maybe forever to really change the hold that, that it had over me, but it's much easier than dealing with that everyday compulsion to drink. It's that it was so exhausting to wake up every morning and just think I don't want to drink today. I really don't want to drink today. And then. That's four o'clock time would come around. And I just think I'm drinking today. It's kind of like this, do different people. Deb: Oh yeah, absolutely. And it, when you start to keep those promises to yourself and the commitment, just the amount of pride that you start and the self confidence boost, and just that feeling, that feeling. Lisa: Yep. So the slate, I was always a pretty good sleeper. I mean, sleep is. I love sleep. I can really never get enough sleep. So, but I I'm sure that it has, it would have to have improved. So then your mental clarity improves. The one thing that I'm the most proud of is to be able to tell my kids that I don't drink anymore. And I haven't made, I've got two actual adult children who don't live at home anymore. And I really feel like that. The ones that have missed out the most, because I would tap out every day at four o'clock and I have a lot of, quite a bit of guilt attached to that. Even though they tell me that that, that, that my drinking was not a problem for them. I, I really feel like I could have been so much better a parent if I was a hundred percent present and not. I think finding my, finding my soul ice in a bottle. So for me now I realized that, you know, it's important for me to be able to do something like this and be able to share my story. But what's really important to me is that my kids know that I've been able to do something that's really hard and that hopefully they, they will make the choice as they grow older. Not to drink because I bring that awareness to, to them. So that's the thing that is the most important to me that I can just change. I might be responsible for changing their drinking in the future. Deb: I take that. So how powerful I think you're right. Like it is. I mean, I feel the same way about my kids and, and drinking during their early years. But then also I'm like, wow, they have seen me do something hard. They have seen me change and now they see me not drinking. And. That is probably an even more powerful lesson than just have always been a non-drinker their whole lives. They haven't seen that we're humans and we can transform and change and we can do hard things. Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That's to me that if I feel like I've started something, it's like the ripple effects I have made a change in my life that will hopefully flow onto them. And then that will slow onto their children that they will not be exposed to, to a drinking culture. Big, well, not when they're around me anyway, because I've changed. I've changed. I'm not, I'm not that person anymore. I'm not somebody who's always got a wine glass in my hand. And I think, you know, that it was that sort of thing that was triggering to me. If I would have like a family function or organizing a party, it was, I would always have a wine glass in my hand because that was my, I would cope with stress of just, you know, putting on a party or. But Ben, obviously it was a daily thing for me, but when I had a function or something, it was, it was, I mean, I would start drinking at lunchtime if we were having a barbecue or something. So now when I'm in, I've got my daughter who, who lives probably about five hours away from me. She's actually driving here right now. Normally, she would see mum cooking dinner with a wine in her hand, but she's not going to see that. And neither in my grandchildren today, because that's not what I do anymore. So that, that feels pretty good. Yeah, Deb: it does. I love that. Lisa: Although I will, will tell you just this quick little story I went to the hairdressers. You can't change everybody's opinion about it. I went to the hairdressers and I was sitting there and my hairdresser was telling me about how her husband was starting a restaurant, a pizza restaurant, and it was going to have a license and he was going to be making all these awesome cocktails. And she was just so excited about. Everything. And I said, well, can I make a suggestion? And she said, sure. This was like today, we were talking as a group in the T in the cell on. And she said, sure. And I said, how about you focus on making some mocktails, something without alcohol? And she looked at me like I was mad. And she went, why would I do that? And I said, well, you know what? It is a growing movement of people that don't drink alcohol anymore. And you know, it's, it's growing, it's getting bigger and people actually would go to a restaurant just to get known alcohol cocktails and mocktails. Yeah, no, that's not, that's not the sort of restaurant wig, very slighted. And I just, you know, I just thought I need to put my opinions back in my mouth because not everybody sees sees it. And it's just a shame that, I mean, she, a young girl with kids and there's so many young families out there that just don't that don't get it. That may be. Deb: Yeah, but I mean, good for you. You planted a little seed and maybe she'll think about Lisa: it. That was squash straightaway. You're like, huh. Okay. You know, this, this is something that I'm passionate about and not everybody's LCS passionate about it. So if I can just start with my family, with my children, then that's enough for me. Deb: Yeah, that's true. I do like it is true. You go through a phase where you're just, you're alcohol free and you're just kind of, you want to tell the world what you're drinking and you want to change everybody. And you just want to like shout it from the rooftops and people are alike. Nothing fun. You never know. Oh, yeah. I love that Lisa: thinks I'm crazy now. Deb: And you know, I think it's good. Well, maybe just she'll have some kombucha for you. Lisa: How about that? But I don't, I just think that was completely show that idea. As soon as I mentioned it, you get a, no, that will not be happening. Deb: But do you think Australia is changing? Do you. Lisa: Yeah, I do. I, I was telling you about this sober in the country group. That I've, I'm part of the way of, so every Australia day, w w we have people that are recognized for things, you know, amazing things that they do, and they get what's called an order of Australia medal. And the founder of cyber in the country actually got an order of Australia medal this year for her work with bringing people in the Bush, particularly men, I think there's a lot, there's a lot of men out there who. Drink because the will a, because they like it, which, which is why most people drink, but they drink because it's a culture amongst men and it's a cool thing to do. And it just you know, men, men like women across the board, feel like they have to keep drinking because that's, that's what men do. So she, she is just making. Her name's Shanna wagon. If you want to look her up, I hope she doesn't mind me giving her a shout out. And she's doing incredible things for so the sober movement in Australia. Yeah. And I think she's reaching the more remote areas. I don't, I don't know many people, she touches in bigger cities, but you know, there's, this, this, this is growing. The movement is growing here in Australia. So I'm hoping. So I'm hoping that somehow, you know, there's enough of us out there that can get the message across and maybe just one or two people might hear it and absolutely feel the way that we do, because that's what they deserve. That's what their families deserve. Deb: You're right. And it's so worth it. It is worth it. Lisa: How worth it is it it's incredible. It, oh, it's not to be controlled by something every day is just the best feeling. Deb: Yeah. That's true. Freedom. Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I mean, I can go out now and not, and I can drive because I don't drink and that's great. You know, I feel I'm saying, you know, I'm jive. So, yeah, so good. There's nothing that there's nothing not to like about it. Deb: Yeah. And I feel like quitting drinking was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Lisa: Awesome. Absolutely. Yeah. Cause you're drinking. I don't, well, from what I can gather, wasn't probably like mine. You were more of a party girl. Is that right? Deb: Oh, I was a nightly drinker and I mean, struggled with it for years years, Lisa. I mean, that's partly why I am so passionate about helping people because I, I felt like I just felt so alone and that there was nowhere for me to fit in. And I just having gotten out of that. Fire. Like, I just I'm like, I can't leave anybody behind, like I just cannot Lisa: leave you behind. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Well you've you haven't left me behind that's for sure. You've shown me the way. And I w I would be surprised if I ever. Touch alcohol again. That's how strongly I feel about it. I just never want to taste it. I never want to touch it. I never even getting to the point where I don't even want to be around people that are drinking. Like someone invites me to something and I know there's going to be alcohol. Not that I'm triggered by it. I just don't want to be around it just, oh, I I'm on, I'm looking for a new tribe. I want to be around people that, that don't drink. Deb: Yeah. Because. Lisa: The crowd and go, you know what? I don't drink. I might've drank for 30 years, but now had done. And that's what I want my next 30 years to look like someone who doesn't drink. Deb: Absolutely. You are an alcohol-free bad Lisa: ass. I am. I certainly am. Deb: Lisa. I am so glad that we got to connect again. I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you. I know you are so proud of yourself. I just thank you. Thank you for your support and. Lisa: You know, I'm his fan of you? I would just scream it from the rooftops. Anybody talking about giving up alcohol, you need to take yourself an alcoholic day and just see where it leads you, because it will more than likely lead you to an alcohol free life, which is which a is the be-all. And end-all. Deb: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm giving you a big heart, a big heart and sending you lots of love across the ocean. Okay. So are you, nah, go have a wonderful day. Lisa: Okay. You continue to be amazing. Deb: Oh, thank you, Lisa. You're so sweet. Okay. Okay. We'll talk soon. Okay. Lisa: Bye. Bye.