Episode Transcript
Kevin Bellack and Alcohol Tipping Point-20230403_103248-Meeting Recording
Deb: Welcome back to the Alcohol Tipping Point Podcast. Today on the show I have Kevin Ballack.
. He is an alcohol free husband, father, certified professional recovery coach, former tax accountant, current coffee lover and tattoo enthusiast.
He is the head of coaching for the Reframe app, which is the number one app to help people cut back or quit drinking alcohol. So welcome to the show,
Kevin: Kevin. Yeah, thanks for having me, Deb. Really excited to finally be here and. Yeah, we were just
Deb: saying like, we've kind of seen each other around and now we're connecting and I think it's fantastic and I'm excited to hear your story, especially going from being an accountant to now being like the head coach reframe and I'm excited to get into it.
So maybe just give a little intro about who you are and what
Kevin: you do. You mean that's not a natural transition going from tax accountant to head of coaching at a alcohol reduction or cessation app? Totally
Deb: logical. Totally
Kevin: logical. Exactly. So yeah, I like, as you said, I, I'm head of coaching at Reframe and I've been there full-time for a little over a year now.
I've been coaching with them part-time before that for for. Half a year or so beforehand before coming on board full-time. But yeah, it's been a interesting transition from the corporate accounting world to kind of the startup world and working from home all the time and all that.
So, yeah, it's been interesting to say the least.
Deb: Totally. Well, I, I really resonate with you because my brother is an accountant. And then your, your handle, your Instagram handle, is that even what we call them anymore?
Kevin: I think so. That's what I use. I don't know.
Deb: It sounds like we're truck drivers. So your Instagram handle is At sober Ginger.
Yeah. Obviously you're a ginger. Yes. You got the ginger beard, but Ginger's rung runs strong in my family. Both my kids are gingers. Nice. My dad is and my mother-in-law. And anyway, so I have like, I guess that makes me feel more connected to you with those. Nice. Yeah. And so you're representing the sober gingers of the
Kevin: world.
I love it. There's many of us out
Deb: there. Yes. Good, good. Well, what was your experience with drinking?
Kevin: So yeah, my experience, I would say I always think my drinking career started in college, like a lot of people's but. You know, it was the normal high school. I didn't really drink that much. You know, handful of times I'd have a beer or something like that, but really it was college with joining a fraternity.
I played football for two years and, and that really, I don't know, lended itself to a lot of opportunities to drink. And but it was pretty much binge drinker. Weekends, sometimes during the week, there's always an excuse, right? But that, that was pretty much my college career, was a lot of binge drinking with o with with other people, friends, and.
That. So that is how I got started. I don't know that there's anything noteworthy in there to mention except, you know, I think from the beginning I never had an off switch. I was always like, once I start, this doesn't end until I'm drunk and passed out on my bed somewhere or you know, whatever. And that kind of carried over to whenever I.
Left college and got a job. I, I started in a big four accounting firm and as very much deadline driven, work hard, drink hard you know unwind and things like that. So, you know, it kind of was an easy transition for me to go from college, drinking to you know, working hard there. And, and, yeah, weekends, deadlines, happy hours, all of that.
And that went on for a few years. And I got married when I was 23. My daughter was born when I was 27. And at that time too, I transitioned to corporate accounting. So a little bit more laid back as far as the deadlines are concerned, although not in the beginning whenever I joined there. But we got it in order and, and it was fine then for a while.
But that kind of naturally slowed me down. I still was heavy binge drinker. And, but usually just social and rarely by myself, but into my thirties, it started creeping in more where it was like, okay, I come home from work and grab a beer to unwind. And from there it was you know, then I grabbed two still doing binge drinking on the weekends typically, but, you know, really just that off switch never appeared for me.
And it really kind of carried me forward into my mid thirties when I, I really had to deal with more responsibility, more stress with, with work. And, you know, 2015 was kind of, the year was kind of my personal tipping point with alcohol. And it was because, you know, I was put on this large project at work.
I was at the forefront of it with my boss. And we. You know, we basically, we had December 31st, 2015, this thing had to get done. So that whole year leading up to it was just nothing but work. And that's when you can, if, if it was a graph, like my drinking just in, you just went straight up. In that year that was the, the, the big shift for me.
And then 2016 came and it, it was the same thing. It was like, oh, now we're done. But no, now we have to implement it. So now we have to work on that. And then in 2017 and 2018, it's like, oh, well now we're a target for acquisitions. We have to work on the due diligence for that. So in 2018, our company was bought out then.
But that was really like, it was just one thing after another and it really kind of, Showed my weaknesses as far as coping skills were concerned because with alcohol or with stress, it was alcohol. That was my coping mechanism. You know, and, and I'd just reached for it, like, and you know, I'd work. A lot and, you know, I'd come home, have a drink to unwind, get back to work.
And then at the end of the night it was like, okay, well now this is my time, right? So I sat down and watched TV early in the morning, late at night and just had some drinks. And, and I was a fast drinker and, you know, that just, you know, continued to. To increase as it went and it, it, my binge drinking was still there.
My social drinking was still there, but it definitely shifted heavily more heavily towards drinking it, drinking alone, drinking at night by myself wife and daughter in bed. And it's not like I was hiding it. But I wasn't really showing people how much I was drinking either. And then 2018 came along and that's when my health started to, it was kind of funny cause I was looking at my I, I have a wifi scale that, you know, tracks your weight and, you know, 2012, I think it's, I started using it and then once 2015 hit the same way my drinking was, you could see that, you know, in that number go up and increase.
It was like everything. All my energy went into work and everything else kind of got put on the back burner for sure. And. 2018, like, you know, I was, I was the, my heaviest, I was I kind of attribute some of my change to the fact that my work made me do biometric screening. So it made me get blood work done.
Yeah. That's what I did for a living. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, that was the, the catalyst because my doctor's like, You know, if, if I didn't get that done, they were gonna gimme a surcharge of whatever for per month for my health insurance. So I did it, and that was when my doctor was like, Hey, you know, your liver enzymes are high.
Let's, let's go check this out. I know you said you drank six or seven a week or whatever number I made up for 'em. But let's go take a look at this and. Couple more months, I think, until I got that done. But you know, they were like, okay, you have a fatty liver. And in my head I was like, well, duh obviously I was waking up with my side hurting me, and it was definitely something that.
I knew there was something wrong. It's just, you know, one of those things you don't want to admit or face. And so I got that done. And, and I jokingly say that you would've thought the cure for that would've been to drink more because that's basically what I did. I didn't really change much cuz you know, the doctor's office was like, oh yeah, just change your diet.
No, stop drinking alcohol or as much alcohol. They probably said, I don't think they said stop drinking alcohol. And all that. It was kind of the superficial you. Band-Aid to, to help me fix that. I, I just didn't know what to do. And then October rolled around and I was like, oh, sober October. I'll try that.
And I did, I got four days in and I drank, and it was because it was a October 15th deadline at work. And you know, it's, we're busy and, and it was a Friday and the stress came and I was like, well, I guess this is done, so I'm just gonna drink the rest of October and not come back to that. And then that December is when our company officially got bought.
We had a bunch of layoffs and, you know, I was one of the, the lucky ones to stick around, I guess. And, you know, we, we, at that point I was really trying to figure out what to do. I was looking into aa, I was looking into, you know, in, by looking into, I was doing this all online. Like I was reading books.
I was going online. I was reading the 12 steps. I was not clicking with the 12 steps. But I never really gave it a shot either. You know, had I found somebody that went or, or gone myself, you know, that could have been the thing that worked for me, but I just didn't see my, see that working for me long term.
So, you know, I, I ended up you know, getting into January and it's at one point, you know, so now we're in year end for accounting, and I was sitting on. My couch on Tuesday night, and I, well, Monday night, I, I came home from work and I picked up a bottle of whiskey and I was like, all right, I'm going to do some work later, but you know, I, I'm gonna do some work now and I'll have some of this later.
So I drank like half that bottle. That night. I was like, okay. And then the next night I come home and I'm like, okay, well I don't wanna drink that because I, I don't wanna finish that in two days. So I'll just open up a bottle of wine and I had the bottle of wine, and then I switched. To that other bottle.
And I finished that too. And that's when I kind of was sitting on my couch and I just kind of broke down like, I can't f and do this anymore. And that's when one of the other things I was looking at was therapy and I went on Better Help and signed up that night, drunkenly filling out the questionnaire and got a therapist that night.
And that was what? We're, you know, kind of the start of my journey that January 22nd, 2019. It's not my day one, but it's, it's the date that I say matters to me the most. Cuz my day one is just the day I stopped drinking this time. Right? I mean, I've had many day ones. This was actually the date that I.
Decided that I needed to change and actually did something that was the important thing. I actually did something that time. And yeah, I'm still, I'm, I had my meeting with my therapist this past Friday, same one, four years. That was four years ago. And you know, that's, that's been a huge part of my journey and, and a big help for me.
But at that point too, and. And feel free to interject any, any questions you might have along the way. But at that point I was like, okay, I'm motivated to do CH change here. We were, and I stopped drinking for like six after, well actually so that was a Tuesday, Friday night. I was sitting right here where I am, although the desk was over there and my wife was sitting at the desk and I was sitting here with a drink and just she was talking and didn't hear a word she said, cuz in my head I'm like, this is when I'm gonna tell her.
I got a therapist and I got a therapist to help me with alcohol. So it was basically me admitting that I had a problem, I guess. And that was, you know, so I, I eventually be like, you know, what would you say if I got a therapist to help me with alcohol? And she was obviously supportive and I think anybody that wants to work on their mental health, that's great.
You know, it's, you know, so she was supportive and all that, and, The next day I started, that was day one, the next day. And I went like, I was motivated. I had help. I had, I, I told somebody I felt this weight was kind of lifted and I went like 60 days without alcohol right there. But the entire time I was talking to my therapist, I'm like, okay, but when's a good time to reintroduce this back in?
When's a good time I can drink again? I, I told her, I'm like, okay, I don't have an off switch, but maybe you can help me install a dimmer switch just to turn it down a little bit so I can be better at this. And and 61 days later or whatever, I was at a Con work conference and I decided to imp you know, Hey, I'm gonna just have one drink tonight at, at dinner.
And and I did, didn't drink at happy hour, had one drink at dinner. I'm like, here we go. I'm good. This is, this is good. And then the next day we went out again, and then there was o whiskeys tasting at the at the event we went to. And I'm like, well, I'm not gonna get past this without drinking, so I might as well have whatever I just drank.
And then it was, it was a lot of, like, the weeks after that, we were a lot of back and forth trying to, trying to moderate, trying to stop implementing like, okay, I'm gonna go this week without drinking, and then I would go a couple days and have a drink for, for whatever reason. And then we ended up at on vacation at the end of April.
And I was, you know, planning on moderating. I was gonna figure out how to moderate on vacation and I was pretty successful. There's two days that I didn't, that I didn't, that it didn't go as planned and that was you know, but overall it was okay, but it kind of made me realize. The rules were my problem.
Like, I, I couldn't I can rationalize away anything. I, if, if I put a rule in place, I can, well, but because of this, it's a, you know, it's Monday and, you know, whatever it is, I can sit there and rationalize away anything. And so I decided, like, okay. When I got back, I was, I was like, okay, I'm going to, Start again on Monday.
I'm gonna try for 61 days. Let's just go one more day than I was before. And you know, let's just do that. And I got back and we got back on Sunday and of course I had to drink everything we brought back from the trip. So I had to get, Hey, I just gotta get all this out of the house, right? And so I got drunk that night passed out during Game of Thrones and woke up the next day and I was like, I told myself, I'm like, there's no way I'm making it to this.
And that's how I felt. I mean, I was like, just did not feel motivated at all to do this and. As the week went on, I started to feel a little bit better. And I got to the weekends. I'm like, okay, I'm feeling better. I'm using my tools that I've been working on with my therapist and, and learning and, and things like that.
And, you know, I'm just, okay, I can see 61 days now let's, let's work on this. And then a couple weeks in, I was like, all right, well, how about 90 days? Let's go for three months. And I just kept pushing it out and I kept working and I, and I kept pushing it out and You know, then it was six months, then it was a year.
So I kept targeting these dates and and yeah, that's, that's kind of in a nutshell, like where, how, how I got into, you know, and that was my last day. One was that, you know, April 29th, 2019, that Monday after vacation when, you know, that was the, that Sunday was the last time I had a drink. And it's been an interesting, almost four years since then.
So, Yeah. Yeah.
Deb: Well, congratulations. Thank you for sharing your story. Thanks. I know you were like, well, it's kind of typical and Yeah, that's also what I like about it too. You know, it's just like you don't have to have like, A dramatic rock bottom or you know, a lot of us start drinking really heavily in college.
That's the culture. And then, you know, we get jobs and then our job is stressful and then we're drinking because of our work. And then, you know, it's like, okay, how do we unwind this? And the way that you went about it was, Different than some other people too, but like also similar. And you know, I think it's so cool that you found a therapist and you asked for help and you're still, you're still doing therapy and you pivoted dramatically in your career and, and now you're helping other people and that's, that's just so freaking
Kevin: cool.
Yeah. Yeah. That was last year. It was the weekend before, or it was the weekend between. You know, I, my last day at my accounting job was a Friday, my first day full-time at, at Reframe was a Monday, and I, we were driving to one of my daughter's whatever games, basketball, soccer, I don't know. And I kind of just started laughing and my wife's like, what?
I'm like, well, I guess I can't drink anymore. I guess I, I've sealed the deal on that with this whole career change. And she's like, Nope. So yeah, it's definitely been interesting to. To go about it this way, like, you know, I could have, I could have just stayed with accounting and, and gone down this road and, and not drank and, and whatever, but I mean, it just seemed to, when I changed the, when I changed that one thing, it's like I, I was just made myself open to other changes as well and, you know, just let things come as they did and went from there.
Deb: Yeah. And, and I love how, you know, you explained how at first you weren't ready to give up drinking. And I mean, no one really is. And I, I think that's just so important. Like, okay, we'll just take 30 days, take 60 days. Yeah. Like, you don't have to decide forever and then you can extend it and see how you're feeling.
Un until you get to the point where you're like, well, I'm officially divorced. Yeah. But yeah, just having. Space and tools to explore your relationship
Kevin: with drinking. Yeah. Yeah. And, and yeah. And just opening it up to that. And then even, even if you're not going to divorce, right? But have a, have that separation, have that space to be like, okay, you know what?
I just need a break. And allowing yourself to do that, even if you don't plan. Doing it forever or, you know, I, that's, that's the worst f word in my opinion. I still don't say I'm never gonna drink again cause I just don't like it. Like, I don't have to say that to know I'm not going to drink right now.
Deb: Yeah, absolutely. I, I agree. I mean, I say I'm divorced. I, I like to, because I do think of it like a relationship. Yeah. And it, it is a sort of taking breaks, going back to your toxic ex, having one night, you know, last stands, whatever one night stands until you're like done. And whatever that looks like, Okay, well let's get to some because now that you are a coach and whatnot, you have so much information and education in ways that you can help other people.
So what are, what are some ways that men can
Kevin: open up? Yeah, this is, this is always challenging, right? Because, you know, every situation's different. Everybody's coming from a different background and different exposure to things. But I mean, let's go with. Let's go with the stereotype first of the, the strong silent type which is how I kind of felt I always needed to be.
Like, I never opened up about anything. I always tried to you know, I just, everything was fine. I was good. Yeah. No matter what, no matter what I was feeling, I was fine. Oh yeah. Living the dream. I'm like, whatever. Like, but you know, and I used alcohol to kind of just push that, push those feelings down and, and, and all that.
But you can only push them. You can only push things like that. Those, those thoughts, those feelings, those that stuff is so much until it's gonna come out somewhere. Right. It's going to, you know, if we're, if we're, if we're silent about this stuff, like it comes out in other ways, it comes out in with stress, with frustration.
We're being upset, getting angry or emotional, whatever, it's going to come out. Right. So, you know, recognizing. You know, not opening up recognizing that that isn't helpful, you know, recognizing that, you know, there are ways to do it and we just have to find the right way for us, like for me it was. I needed to talk to somebody and I needed to talk to somebody, like a third party.
That's why I liked the therapy option. That's why also I liked better help or things like that because I didn't have to leave my house. I didn't have to show up somewhere and you know, you know, cause everybody's like, oh, you know, if you see me walking in or you know, whatever. And. It, there was like the stigma around it for me which I think is foolish now in look in hindsight, but the stigma's there, I mean, there are issues with it that people have.
And I had 'em, so having that option of just doing it from here, my computer was helpful. But finding those finding those ways to do it. And, and it's funny because that's opening up to. A professional like that, therapist, coach, whoever opening up to a friend a loved one or whatever it, it was, it was hard for me to.
Voice, the, you know, whatever I wanted to say to like my wife. So I, I'm a, I got big into journaling because with better help you could message your therapist. And I was messaging my therapist daily, like, just long posts of how I was going, or I always call, you know, I always use the I, I got curious about my cravings and I would pull, like anytime I got a craving, instead of reaching for a drink, I would reach for my phone and pull it out and start typing and just, Offloading my thoughts onto there.
I think that's a big help too. And everybody makes fun of me reframe cuz I talk about journaling all the time. But I'm a big fan of journaling because it was the first time I was able to open up and, and actually get my thoughts outta my head. Now it, it's easy, right? I mean, everybody could do that, but.
I, I never thought about it, I never thought it was useful, but by, by messaging my therapist, I realized like, oh, all I'm doing here is journaling my thoughts out. So I got a journal app. I, I started writing it there first. Then I would send it to my therapist and then I started doing it where I would be like, I'd be sitting on, I'd be sitting on the couch like typing this out and, you know, just getting this outta my head.
And I would look over at my wife, who's 10 feet away and I would copy and paste it into a text and send that to her. And, Read that. Let me know what you think. But it was an easy way for me to share how I was feeling without, I don't know, using my words as I, using my words like a big boy, like I kind of joke around now.
But you know, it was just easier that way cuz I could sit there and I'm more analytical and I could sit there and get my thoughts outta my head and, and, and look about, look at it. Letting emotion get too much into the mix. But finding those outlets, whatever that is. It could be, you know, we have on, on Reframe, we have a bunch of community meetings and we have men's meetings.
So finding something like a men's meeting or you know, a group that you can share with that you're comfortable with whatever that might be. You know, and again, everybody's different. Like, you know, people go to the gyms, people go to, you know, churches or you know, whatever. There's so many communities out.
You know, but finding just some way to connect and open up can be so important.
Deb: Yeah. And I realized, you know, I, I had asked what are ways men can open up, but like, honestly that that's a, a way anyone can open up. Yeah. Do you think we're starting to see like a change in men becoming more vulnerable?
Or is do we still have a long ways to go? How are we, how are the men doing?
Kevin: I, I, I think, I don't know. I always, I always wonder because it, it's like You know, I'm going on vacation at the end of this week and you know, I always say that I'm like in my little sober bubble here, where I talk to people all day long about alcohol and, and removing or reducing it in their life and, and everybody's kind of on the same page.
And then I'm gonna go out next week and I'm gonna see that alcohol is, is alive and well you know, everywhere. And I, I wonder if, you know, I surround myself with people who are sharing about this or, you know, in these meeting, you know, cuz I. You know, the men, the men's meetings that we do like some of the best, most vulnerable shares because it's just a small group of us.
They're sharing that and talking, and it's o it's, you know, we have that trust with one another that, you know, this is a safe space. I don't know that you see that, you know, a lot. You know, I think being vulnerable for me is a strength, but it's also still. It's still very much a weakness for me. I'm still working on it.
Like there's plenty, there's plenty of stuff I just, cuz I don't drink now doesn't mean I still don't like hold stuff in and, you know, I try, but I'm just better at catching it now. I'm better at acknowledging it and, and recognizing what I am doing that now versus just continuing to, to push it down. So, you know, I, I myself am still very much a work in progress.
Yeah. So answer, well, well, I was gonna say, just to answer your question, I, I don't know, you know, I, I don't know if, if there is a shift, I mean, you would like to think so with social media and that like, there, there is that ability to see other people doing it. So therefore, you know, you are more likely to do it as well or be a little bit open to it versus never seeing anybody doing that and only having examples of people, you know.
Being stoic or, or, you know not opening up.
Deb: Sure. Yeah. Watching Ted Lasso now, and I, I'm, I'm slow to the Ted Lasso bus, but he, they're now in the second season and they're showing him like opening up and getting therapy and being mo more vulnerable like you said, and just, just to Just so that we have more examples Yeah.
Of men doing that. And peop and everyone, I mean, honestly, everyone should do that. So, yeah. Well, tell me, what are some of your top tips for changing your drinking?
Kevin: I, I would say learning and, and that's general, that's broad you know, learning about. About yourself learning about, you know, what alcohol does to you.
Because, you know, I, when I started it was like, okay, my side hurts. I know alcohol is impacts my liver. And I, I know that when I wake up and feel that, that that's a direct result of alcohol. I didn't know that with all the cancer risk, with what it does to your heart, what it does to your brain, all of that, I mean, it, it impacts so much that, you know, I think just acknowledging that and, and realizing learning about that can be.
A helpful tool. It's not like, it's not like we, we sit there and be like, oh, you know, it, it does this to my brain. My brain's shrinking because of it. Okay, I'm gonna stop. Like, it's not that easy, but it can be a part of it, right? It's just, you know, there's, there's many things that need to go into it. So learning about that, learning about the reasons why you reach for a drink I think is crucial because, you know, for me it was like I was, I started it and I said, okay, I drink because of work.
And that was the reason, you know, in my head at the forefront that that's why I drank. And then I stopped drinking and I realized, oh no, you drink because of every emotion, like every emotion, like my hand twitched and wanted to get a to reach for a drink, to fix whatever problem I was having. So finding, you know, those reasons why you reach for a drink and then.
Having a, having a solid reason why you wanna stop too is important. Like we always talk about the why you know, what is that reason? For me it was health. You know, initially I, I, I saw a future where I was gonna start taking blood pressure meds and cholesterol meds and, and, and you know, a lot of half measures to fix things that were directly a result of alcohol.
I didn't like where that was going. And so I, I, that was part of, that was a big catalyst to why I started. But recognizing along the way, finding those other reasons along the way. Cause there was a lot that popped up early on, whether that was, Hey, I just feel calmer. My head's clear. You know, my relationships are better.
I'm calmer. You know, my wife and daughter or things like that. Like, I just felt more patient. So a lot of those things I just kept adding onto my list as I went. Getting support, whatever that looks like. Whether that's, you know, a therapist, whether that's going to aa, whether that's, you know, finding Instagram.
That was a big support for me early on as well. That was I kind of joke that the only reason I'm. Doing this today is because I joined, I joined Instagram at the I didn't joined Instagram. I created my sober account because of something my therapist said. She was like, well, you know, because I had a bunch of pictures coming up like one year ago today you were drinking this.
And she's like, well, how about you start posting better pictures so that way next year you'll have something better to look at? I was like, okay. So I started the sober Ginger account and. And then yada, yada yada, three years later, you know, I, I became a coach. I, I changed my career and all that stuff.
Like, you know, it's, there was a lot that went into that, but that was a big help for me to see other people and to talk to other people and to share my own struggles out there and get support from other people. But also, you know, see people say like, oh, thank you. I need to read this today, or things like that.
But finding that, In whatever way works for you. Like I said, I listed off a couple, there's the Reframe app where we have a forum in there. We have community meetings every day on Zoom, all that stuff. So there's, there's options out there, especially now with all the ever since Covid too, you know, that's been a, a big thing with online.
So that's helped a lot. And then I would just say, Probably give yourself a chance to change. Give yourself, be honest with you, know yourself and, and recognize that this isn't going to be necessarily a quick fix. This isn't, this is, this could this is going to be more involved than you think. I would say in the beginning you know, I think we can't kind of fool ourselves to think that, Hey, I, if I just take 30 days, we always see it on everywhere.
30 day, this 60 day, that 75 hard, this, that, you know, and these things are great. You know, sometimes things take as long as they take. And so giving ourselves a chance just to work on, work on ourselves and, and not get caught up in this is taking too long, or I should have been done by now because, you know, we, you know, I drank for 21 plus years and you know, it was gonna take more than 60 days for me.
Change my relationship with it. So acknowledging that and just giving yourself that chance to just work on you, I think is important to do. Yeah, I think so
Deb: too. And taking out the perfection part of it. Yeah. What, what are some ways that you address setbacks or, you know, if, if someone is their goal's 30 days, but they only make it four days or, you know, they just keep repeating day one again and
Kevin: again.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, acknowledging that you are learning something, you know, if it's, you know, if you get to day four and, and you know, I hear a lot of people who might say like, oh, I can never get past day. It's like, all right, well what do you do on day one and two? What, what do you do there that help, that helps you get through?
And maybe that's just like, oh, I'm hungover and I don't feel like drinking on day one. And then, you know, so maybe it's some of that, but. Then I ask like, well, what, what can you do to set up the most perfect day three that you could ever imagine that would help you get through and not drink? And whether that's, you know, hey, scheduling things in, whether that's, you know, having support with a community, setting up a meeting with a therapist, going to a community meeting, going to some kind of meeting to get support, like whatever that is, going to bed early, like, you know, ordering your favorite meal for, for dinner.
Set yourself up with the perfect day and get through it because you can do it and show yourself that you can do it. But continue to learn new tools, right? Because we, you know, if we want to change, we have to change. So, you know, if we, if we want to do things differently, we gotta just keep looking for those.
Different things because, you know, I, I kind of look at it as like we all have our own unique like combination lock, like, you know, those, the locks where you turn it and you go, the three numbers and all that. We all have our own kind of unique code. And my code, you know, in the beginning was therapy learning and What else would I say?
Journaling, let's say. So I, I would say those were my three in the beginning, but, you know, you could have done therapy, learning and journaling and it could have looked totally different than what I do. So, you know, it could have been group therapy, it could have been I, I read Quit Lid. You could have read, you know, textbooks about it, you know, it's, it's, or podcasts or, you know, whatever that is.
It, it, it, it looks totally different in each case. So take this information from everybody else that you're seeing and then just kind of figure out what works for you. And there is no one size fits all. There is no one thing that's going to work no matter what anybody tells you. It's finding what works for you and that takes time.
I love that
Deb: analogy of the, the combination lock.
Kevin: Yeah, I mean, it, it's, and I can never remember my numbers either. But yeah, I mean, we're all different. And I, I think that's important to know that you know, we, we like to, we like to have that. Step by step manual, right? Gimme, just gimme the book or just gimme the, the cliff notes or, oh, what is it now?
Spark Notes. I think I just aged myself cuz I don't think they do cliff notes anymore. I'm, I've got what you
Deb: were saying. Okay. I get it. Cliff notes.
Kevin: But you know, just gimme that, gimme the, gimme that, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. It's like, no, it's not that simple. It's like you have to figure out what works for you because you know, you got, you got.
You know, in your life and you know, just because I tell you to go to therapy, that might not work for you. Mm-hmm. It worked for me and I'm happy that it did. But I'm not saying that's what everybody should do. You know, I think it is important to, to find what works. Definitely.
Deb: And so what, what would you say are some coping skills that we can use instead of drinking?
Kevin: Besides quitting
Deb: your job and becoming a
Kevin: coach? Besides, besides yeah. Changing your whole life and, and going into this space. Yeah. The You, you know, like I, I said before, learning was a big one for me. You know, my commutes were always with, you know, audible or podcasts on, and, you know especially my commute home was, again, this was just me finding things that work because on my way home, that's when I started thinking about, actually when I got in my car and started pulling outta the garage, I started thinking about.
What am I gonna drink tonight? Or that's where my head went because I was stressed from work and some, usually it started earlier than that probably. But but having that having that podcast on or at that book I was listening to, kind of just started getting my mind In the right, you know, space or, or remem reminding me why I was doing this or listening to other people talk and realize I'm not alone and you know, things like that.
And, you know, I sometimes get to that part of my drive where I had to, I could turn left and go and, and go to the store or. Or keep going straight and going home. And that's when, you know, if I was struggling, I would maybe call my wife and just be like, Hey, what's for dinner? What's going on? What are you doing?
You know, and didn't have to be like, Hey, I really wanna drink right now. I could just be talking about anything. But just to get my mind off it. But I could always say like, Hey, I'm really struggling right now. But finding those things that, that work. You know, I, I think journaling really helped for me too because I could, I.
And I, I don't, everybody has like their own way of doing this as far as you know, handwritten or, or digital or whatever. I like digital because I always have my phone with me. So, like I said, like my, my re knee-jerk reaction became to pull out my phone and either message my therapist or Or type start typing in my journal.
Get curious about what just happened. Like, okay. Yeah. Oh, I'm, I'm stressed because of work. Okay, but why, when did this ha when did this come up in with work? Did it just happen at 6:00 PM when you were leaving the garage? No. You kind of. Felt it earlier in the conference room. Okay, well, what happened there?
Well, you know, and, and you can, you can try and backtrack it to certain things and that way then you can say, okay, well this happened during work. Can I change anything with that? Can I, can I make a change there moving forward to help me instead of just reliving that same thing over and over again? Can I say something to my boss?
Can I say. Can I change the way I do something at work? And I'm just using work as an example, you know, whatever it is. Can I, can I change something here? Cuz a lot of times we, we get stuck in a rut where, oh, I can't do anything about this, or this is just always how it's gonna be. And it's like, we don't know if it's always gonna, how it's gonna be unless we ask or we, we reach out or we change something.
You know, we can do, we can, the worst we can do a lot of times is just ask or, you know, for. More support or whatever it might be. But yeah, as far as coping skills you know, I used distraction a lot in, or especially early on I had my few episodes of, of funny shows that I would pull out the, you know, in case of emergency kind of break glass.
And I, and I kind of always looked at it. You know, we talk about a toolkit a lot and all the tools that we use. You know, I look at it as having that maintenance toolkit and that what I call my go bag, my emergency toolkit, like kind of break glass in case of, you know, huge craving type of thing. So I had those maintenance things that I always did.
I therapy every week. I, I journaled, I tried to exercise. Didn't really worry about that as much in the beginning. You know, the meditation I did the Miracle Morning. I, you know, all of those things like the, the normal routine. And then I had my in case of emergency break glass. And what was, what was I pulling out of there?
Well, there was some crossover. It was my journal Swedish Fish Candy Sugar. I was, that was big for me to be able to just, Get through and just have, have some, put some, get some sugar and kind of like using the halt technique. Am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired? Like a lot of times I was just hungry.
And you know, using that was helpful. Distraction. Playing a game on my phone, talking to somebody, watching a funny show, laughing usually helped. You know, but just changing my environment, you know, if I'm stressed, you know, that's probably one of the biggest things that I learned early on, if I was stress.
Don't just sit in that stress. Don't just sit in that like, I want to drink, I want to drink, I want to drink. Go to another room. You know, take a cold shower lay down and just do some deep breathing exercises. Call somebody, go outside, like, change your environment because if you just sit in it, it's only gonna get worse.
So you have to kind of break that cycle as best you can early.
Deb: Yeah. I had a guy on who was saying one of the things that he recommends people do is rearrange all the furniture in their house so that their environment looks different. Yeah. Because I mean, you do, you sit in the same spot. Yeah. You have dinner and you know, you sit in the same chair, you know, just like whatever you can do to like, switch it up and yeah, mix up your brain too.
Kevin: And, and I didn't go down in my basement for a long time because I drank in my basement by myself at night, and that's where I did it. And so I just avoided it so that that is, you know, making because we, we, there's a lot of context with all these environments that we have. So, yeah, I love that because if you sit in the same spot that you always drink, guess what your brain's gonna wanna do?
Drink. So sitting in a different. I love rearranging the furniture. If you drink, when you cook and, and you lo you know, and, and that's a, you have to do that, like start making crockpot recipes start, you know, doing start you know, finding quick and easy meals or whatever, like change things up so that you can.
Not be stuck in the kitchen or, you know, whenever you might want to have a drink. Like, what are your, where are your triggers? How can you change that? Yeah,
Deb: yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Well, I wanted to just point out like you had mentioned health and how you're like, yeah, I could have been on Medicine for hypertension, for high cholesterol various things related to your liver and whatnot, and.
I, I just was like, or you can remove alcohol and I just think it makes so much of your life easier. I especially like work stress and, and just removing alcohol and getting your brain reset just makes. Everything easier. Makes your job easier. It makes your taking care of your health, making better food choices easier, your relationships.
You know, you could go to couples therapy or you can also remove alcohol just to make everything easier. It can be that one stumbling block that you get rid of, and then you can focus on other areas.
Kevin: Yeah. And cuz when I stopped I was like, I drink cuz of work stress. So it's like how am I gonna get through this?
And it was. It didn't take long for me to realize like, oh, you know what, I'm not getting as stressed because I'm not drinking. Like, I'm like, the anxiety that was there for the same situation like a month ago isn't there anymore. Because, and you know, it takes, that's different for everybody, obviously.
Like we have to always you know, mention that. Whether it's, you know, a week, a month, you know, six months, like it, it does, alcohol is impacting the way we deal with those things and that stress. So yeah, I mean it's, and, and the other medications like you mentioned it's impacting all that. I mean, there's not one system in our body that, that is absolved from alcohol's impact on us.
Deb: Absolutely. Well, tell us how Reframe works.
Kevin: Yeah, sure. So Reframe is an app to help people cut back or quit drinking alcohol. We have two tracks, so when you join, you pick, like, I'm looking to cut back, I'm looking to quit. And you can switch between the two. You know, it's based on cognitive behavioral therapy and neuroscience.
And, and I kind of see it as, I, I like to kind of throw it out as a, I grew up with choose your own adventure books. You know, I, I like the, the fact. You know, some people are just looking for that, a little bit of additional support information, you know, things like that. So we have, you know, a a, a foundation built on, like we have daily tasks for hundreds and hundreds of days of, of tasks that you can do to learn about what alcohols.
Impact is on our body to learn tools to get through it, to get through cravings, to get through different situations and stressors. Because, and it's not just all about alcohol. It's about, you know, how to improve relationships, how to improve, you know, because there's, it's so much, it, it, it impacts.
Removing alcohol is not just about removing alcohol, right? That's a famous or common quote. It's about, you know, changing the reasons why we might drink in the first place. So, but it, it, it allows you to, you know, try and build habits around those daily tasks, right? Coming in each day, doing your daily tasks, rewarding you for it in the app.
And then, you know, if you just do that, You know, you could get a lot of benefit out of that. But then we also add in, there's a on, there's a forum in the app, a private. You know, anonymous forum where you can go at any time of day and just post and share about what you have going on. Either give other people support, share your struggles, share your wins.
And, and people can comment and like, and, and connect via that forum. We have I don't know the exact count, but o over 150 community meetings on Zoom a month. And you know, it's, we have daily meetings where you can go and, and there's hundreds of, we have different groups too. We have you know, we have the individual track meetings where you can have a cutback meeting, you can have a quick meeting, you can have a kind of an all reframer meeting that anybody's can come and, and share.
We have men specific meetings, women, L G B, lgbtq, bipo. We have military veterans, first responders. We just added a Spanish speaking meeting, helping professionals, you know, so we're, we keep, we continue to add these meetings because, you know, it offers a lot of support for people to go and hear other people share.
No, you're not alone. You know, you can, you can share if you want to. You don't have to, you don't have to turn your camera on any of that stuff. So, you know, those are, Are very helpful in, in a popular aspect of it. We're adding challenges where you can go and do a dry January or a damp January you know, where you're just looking to cut back.
And you know, there's just so much in there. There's a toolkit if you have a craving, you can go. We're actually adding a. A, a cool new feature to that. We're adding AI into that where you can go and ask the AI assistant, you know, Hey, I'm looking to get through this craving you know, and give it specifics on what you want to do or what you like, or it'll ask you questions and it'll help you get through the craving and, and, and figure out ways to do that.
So we're continuing to grow and add new things all the time. So it's been pretty exciting. I should add, as the head of coaching, we have one-on-one coaching as well in the app. So, yeah.
Deb: Oh, very cool. So it is app based, you
Kevin: find it on your phone? Yep. It's a, it's an iOS app, so it's, it's only with apple right now.
Oh, okay. And yeah. And so it's all app based, all on your phone. And the community meetings are on Zoom, which you can obviously use on your phone or computer or anything like that. Yeah.
Deb: Got it. Okay. And then how can someone find, you
Kevin: can find me in the Reframe app on a community meeting there, or, you know, I do offer one-on-one coaching in the app itself.
And you can also find me on Instagram at the sober ginger.
Deb: Awesome. Well, thank you, Kevin for being on the show. I'm glad that we finally gotta connect and have a conversation. I love what you're doing. I've, I've heard really good things about Reframe, so thank you for coming on and sharing about that too.
Kevin: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And I will mention too, that you can also find me soon on the Ream podcast. So that's the new podcast coming out. Which, yeah, it's been, it's been interesting. It's been fun. It's been overwhelming. So as you well know doing this, so I'm sure. So,
Deb: okay. Well, we love podcasts.
If anyone's listening to a podcast, they're always looking for other cool podcasts, so thank you.
Kevin: Yep. Yeah. Thank you Deb.
